I hope you guys don't find "Emerald Hearts" too gay. I obviously already used "The Green Hat" for the forum, so I couldn't very well use it for the campaign as well. I guess I could, but I think it may have been a bit confusing. Also, there's no green hat in this campaign yet.

I guess the concept of "too gay" doesn't apply to you.

Ok, I guess I'll actually discuss the game thing.

Baldy and I were discussing a few possible house rules. These will benefit primarily the rogue.

Often times there will be a critical hit or what would be a sneak attack due to flanking that doesn't happen because the critter in question is immune to critical hits or cannot be flanked. I propose some exceptions to this. Let's say you're in a position where you say "Dammit, I would have had a critical against this skeleton!" In this case I might say "Make a DC 10 knowledge: Undead" check. If it succeeds, you critical. You knew exactly where to put it. Same thing with a plant critter. Knowedge: Plant. Also, Knowledge: Constructs. This will also apply to flanking. The DC of the knowledge check will vary based on what you're fighting. However, it is a particular skill that keeps something from being flanked, no such luck. For example, this will never work against a Barbarian who cannot be flanked.

I guess the fundamental question is... should it be "Knowledge: Plant"? Should there be another skill? Or should it simply be "Knowledge: Critical" and "Knowledge: Flanking"? In such a case, the DC would be higher. I mean, I don't want everyone to be able to make these (and remember, knowledge checks cannot be used untrained), but if you put a little skill points into them I think you should get lucky a few times. Especially if you focus around these things. I mean, if someone is wielding a falchion with improved critical, they want to max out their ranks on these skills.

Discuss.


I propose one other house rule. This is very particular to the rogue. For critical hits while getting sneak attack (a rare occurrence, but not impossible), he gets no extra damage for the sneak attack. I think to make it interesting we should change the dice from Xd6. I don't know what weapons a rogue might be using, but if the critical multiplier is...

2x then the new damage is Xd8
3x then the new damage is 2Xd6
4x then the new damage is 3Xd6

Eh? Whatcha think?

I'm really dubious about encouraging any other classes to use picks / scythes / mercurial greatswords. A 10th level rogue critting with a pick will do (1d4+Str)x4 + 15d6. Now granted, a scythe wielding barbarian will also do gross amount of damage on that crit. It also punishes anyone who uses a shortsword, dagger, longsword, axe... really anything that doesn't have an extra "dot" of crit damage, in either direction. Because all you ever get in exchange for that dot is a die size on larger- aka, 1d6 damage with a short sword 19-20, or 1d4 damage with a kukri 18-20.

I'll think about some numbers though, to try to make this good. Basically, the average damage should be the same from critting with a kukri (18-20)x2 and a pick (20)x4.

You might also consider allowing a Master of Exotic Anatomy Feat to open up a new knowledge skill (exotic anatomy) and make it a class skill, and then allow DC checks based on that- and make those DC checks lower than you would naturally need with Dungeoneering, Arcana, etc, or at the very least only have *one* skill for that.

Do you think a simple "If you critical, use d8s instead" would be better?

Oh boy, another forum that throws away my post after timing me out. Splendid.

Anyway, talking crits:

d8 is 28% better than d6
d10 is 57% better than d6
d12 is 86% better than d6

These numbers are consistent, and are what we would want for x2, x3, x4 (aka, x3 is twice as good as x2, and x4 is thrice as good as x2).

Well, maybe. That rewards scimitars / kukris over short swords and daggers, though.

Alright. I'm digging the increase in die size. I was just reading off the "increase your size so the damage die becomes..." table. I didn't actually check the numbers. Let's go with that.


So take a step back, though... the critical hits and sneak attacks. Few things actually avoid sneak attacks. It's just that in battle most sneak attacks are delivered via flanking, and some critters are immune to flanking. Does our plan of thwarting that make sense? Should they be two separate feats? Two separate skill checks? One is how to put the sword in the right spot, one is how to bewilder the unbewilderable. It is assumed that if the rogue could bewilder the opponent through flanking, he already knows where to put the knife for a sneak attack.

Cool. While they still won't scale like a fighter or barbarian (that would flat out being allow it to critical, which would seriously make the damage they could suddenly deliver to be pretty silly), it does reward a rogue for getting a critical hit, and it restores critical hit to what it has always claimed to be thematically. A possible downside is the mechanical superiority of "high crit" weapons being extended to rogues. I'd been playing with ideas for regular weapons anyway, if anything comes from that I'll let you know.




Not much is immune to being flanked that I can *recall*. It's also possible (though hard) to sneak up on something or mess it up such that it's denied it's Dex bonus to AC (for instance, if it's stunnable the monk might be able to stun it).



I'd say if something is immune to flanking, or otherwise resistant like a barbarian with improved uncanny dodge, that it doesn't need a workaround (especially given that a 20th level rogue CAN flank and sneak attack a 19th level barbarian, and that a 15th level rogue can flank and sneak attack a 10th level barbarian / 10th level fighter). I mean, with the DC check, or whatever else was planned, you can sneak attack any corporeal undead.




In the current game, you can flank a lich for +2 to hit him, but you can't sneak attack him. With your rules there would be a *way* to sneak attack him, though it wouldn't be guaranteed. In the current game, you can't flank the barbarian, but if you manage to deny him his Dex bonus you can still sneak attack him. Unless there's a whole class of creatures immune to flanking, I wouldn't sweat it.

Maybe I have something wrong, but I have that undead, constructs, and elementals are all immune to flanking.

Wow, that was quite a bit to read.

I don't think I should offer much input here, because the proposed rules stand to benefit me A LOT. I'll say that I like them, although we should also be ready for when stupid enemy rogues come and attack us.

Regarding the Knowledge checks, do we really have to create a bunch more Knowledge skills? Can we adapt any of the broad categories to suit the proposed rules? Knowledge: Nature in place of creating Knowledge: Plant is the one that jumps immediately to mind. Maybe Knowledge: Engineering can apply to constructs. It starts to get tricky with others, but we could try to minimize the number of new Knowledge skills by adapting as many of the current ones as we can.

Dang it, do we really have to wait until January 31? *kicks pebble*

No, they can be flanked. They are immune to precision based damage, which is sneak attack, critical hits, and some prestige class stuff.

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/typesSubtypes.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/Classes/rogue.htm


This is a less than lovely way of showing that you CAN flank, because the sneak attack discussion takes place in the rogue class (the part that says you can't sneak attack undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures is in there), whereas the creature type part under subtypes is the one that rules out critical hits on all of these types.

Note that these dudes are mostly immune to stunning attacks as well. Usually the line is:
"Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning."

Also one of my favorites is:
"Plants breathe and eat, but do not sleep."

Like Chuck Norris, they don't sleep, they wait.

Yeah, I was just reading the Monster Manual. Looks like I got overly eager with putting Xs in check boxes on my table. Only elementals are immune to flanking. Ok, so yeah... I'm thinking they can stay immune to flanking.

Feat: Accurate Prick. Allows use of Knowledge: Knowing Where to Stick It to overcome immunity to critical hits and sneak attack damage.

Skill: Knowledge: Knowing Where to Stick It. As a free action after an attack that would normally allow sneak attack damage and/or a critical hit to an enemy, make a knowledge check to determine if you can find the best place to stick it and still get that extra damage. Failure means the immunity to sneak attack or critical hit still applies, but normal damage is unaffected. Requires Accurate Prick Feat.

In class for Rogue, Bards, and Wizards. Cross class for everyone else. Intelligence modified, may not be used untrained.

The DC of the check will vary by critter. I'm thinking a basic, challenge rating 1 skeleton will be DC 5. Something that you might face in equal numbers at level 4-5 might be around DC 8-10. But it will vary with the type of critter. Nothing says I won't throw something at you that has a DC 20 immunity.

I had missed the part about elementals being immune to flanking. Since they aren't directional based creatures (they are homogeneous) it makes sense- aka, they don't have eyes or anything else like that, they percieve spherically, etc.

Ok so- I suggest we change the feat name to something like Exotic Strikes, and the knowledge name to Knowledge: Fantastic Anatomy (or Exotic Anatomy). I'd suggest making the prerequisite "sneak attack or bardic knowledge", that way other classes like scouts and ninjas aren't left out (they have abilities that are meant to act like sneak attack in order to qualify for feats and such). You might even consider allowing bardic knowledge to actually count for this check instead of using the knowledge skill.

As for setting the DCs, well, you can go flavorwise (individual per creature), or you can just have it be a constant with a percent of hit dice added in (for instance, corporeal undead could be 12 + HD/2, while plants could be 14 + HD/2, etc. You should also make it clear which creature types this effects: as worded it gets around Fortification effects, which may or may not be intended.

If you are worried about game balance you could also have the critical portion be at half strength. Also note you are giving barbarians / fighters an unusual reason to pick up one level of rogue unless we work it out to be somehow tied to rogue levels.

I'd have mixed emotions about choosing a feat entitled "Accurate Prick". It could also be construed to be a vague title.

Yeah, um, "Accurate Prick" and "Knowing Where to Stick It" weren't accidents.


My intent was to allow the rogue to sneak attack, and to allow every other class to have the option to critical. I didn't envision allowing the rogue to be the ONLY class that can effectively critical against otherwise immune enemies. The rogue merely has the advantage for an in-class knowledge and the extra skill points. One feat and one still gets the rogue (or any sneak attacker) two benefits, and a fighter would have to do all the same stuff, spend more skill points, just to be use it for criticals.

I thought you were mocking the new 4ed naming conventions, actually.



Right, but you did in your description limit the feat that turns the skill on to rogues / bards. Did I misread?



Aha! I think I see. That means that the fighter who is able to do this would essentially have to have to be smarter than the average fighter, and he'd lose a lot of skill points for it, though the feat would be "cheaper" for him. Ok, that I like a great deal.

For anyone following Get Fuzzy right now, don't be surprised if you encounter a metro gnome.

You may be pleased to know I just picked up Oriental Adventures. I don't know if I'll do anything with it, but I have it anyway. I was hoping there was something describing Forgotten Realm's China (Shou Lung), but I didn't see it. I found a 2nd edition use Horde campaign setting box, which is the Mongolians. I thought that might be a little tricky, and perhaps a little munchkin.

Sadly, very sadly, I went looking for Kara-Tur again. That's Forgotten Realm's Asia (Shou Lung is their China). I found there is only a first edition version and nothing made since. Additionally, the box sex is $56+ on Amazon from their used resellers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara-Tur

I am sure you looked here but maybe not. It looks like some pretty good info that your brain could use as a jump off point. Maybe there not being a whole lot of "official" info on it can open it up to your imagination and give you a lot of freedom.

That may be my best source available. I'd like the pretty box set with the maps and all of that, but I can work with that. If the campaign heads that way, I honestly think it will be about a year in real time before it happens.

It seems like they got really lazy when it came to this end of the world. The crime syndicate is even called the Yakuza.

They didn't even pretend.



The Dragonwall to the north and west protects them from the barbarian hordes. There on the map you can see Korea and Japan. If I were in a different mood this would bother me, but as of now I just find it funny.

Do remember that the Realms are actually related to the real world, unlike every other D&D setting. *How* they are related is undefined and tenuous, of course.

The Yakuza are actually a base class in the original book too.

There's a real chance I'll be looking for the box for this one day, it's one of the few 1ed things that is really worth having.

There's also a 3ed-era thing online written by WotC where they discuss how to have shanty towns and crap in the middle of the modern defined Realms so you don't actually have to go to the mostly undefined Kara Tur.

Fair enough. I suppose the way in which they could be related is that the supreme being in the Forgotten Realms world traced the outline and then used the smudge tool.

What I really want to know is whether dwarves in the area have slanty eyes.

Apparently yes.



Oh and something else I read is there is apparently an intelligent Yeti called a taer.

Here is a really good thread on all of the creatures that live there.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1128919

That's pretty fucked up. I can't even wrap my head around an asian dwarf. I will not ask about elves or orcs. Thanks for the link. Maybe I will pick up The Unapproachable East while I still can.