+1

My raids start at 7:30, but everyone is supposed to be there at 7:15. If people can't make that first time, we get it, but it can slow us down a bit. I would be down with say, "we will start gaming at 4:15, so try to be around at 3:45ish".

We also have a generally assumed break for dinner. We SHOULD have plenty of time!




Well, the only reason this sucks is that the MIC is a very average book. Having a sweet leatherish cover on a PHB or Spell Compendium? Sign me the fuck up!

The rereleasing of 3.5 I find a very good omen. 5.X will probably be a game worth looking into with this better attitude. However, I think at this point, Pathfinder is the One True Thing. They have proved that they give a fuck. Any forum you go to and ask a rules question and sometimes fucking Sean K Reynolds stops by and tells you the rule, the reasoning, and the philosophy is just a giant train of win.




So like, I don't even get this. It just sounds insane to me. There's ways to make it work, such as:

1)- The world is just that similar.
2)- The world is populated by a subsection of actual Earthlings who fell into a hole in 1100 AD or something.
3)- The actual names are entirely different, but these are what they would be translated into English/German/French- being as most town names originally have a meaning (London might be from a King Lud, the Parisii's city is Paris, the Franks named their city Frankfurt). So "Birchwood" would really be, in their language, as would be, but "Hunstanton" would probably have to take a pass unless they also had a river Hun, a super odd coincidence.
4)- ?


Like, are the names the real names? There's a mix in Caligo. If you heard someone say "Alenka Thatcher" the "Thatcher" would be in Arcatan, but "Alenka" would be actually said. But "Lithonian Eruheran" would really sound like that, while "Thomas Fox" would be their word for twin, and their word for fox- it wouldn't sound like that.

They would say: Alenka Thatcher
We would hear: Alenka (Arcatan word for one who thatches)
They would say: Lithonian Eruheran
We would hear: Lithonian Eruheran
They would say: Thomas Fox
We would hear: (Arcatan word for twin) (Arcatan word for Fox)




I approve of this- presumably the version you hear in the game world is their word for north, and their word for cross, put together. You'll notice a lot of the Voriphan words for directions in their island names.



But you didn't go all the way down the rabbit hole. It's not like Jonathan Norcross generated his name, it was from his father, and his father's father. Every name in the anglosphere is from the father (and in a few recent cases, from the maternal grandfather).

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Norcross

"The derivation is from the Olde English pre 7th Century "north", north, and "cross", cross. "

So, Norcross really is from North and Cross, just like yours. It's not a crossing in this case, but a physical cross object:

"The latter element in this instance may refer to a stone cross set up by the roadside, around which a settlement grew up, or perhaps a cross in a market place. During the Middle Ages when migration for the purpose of job-seeking was becoming more common, people often took their former village name as a means of identification, thus resulting in a wide dispersal of the name. "


I think Norcross is a fine name for a place in a fictional world- but they would probably say their word for North and their word for cross, so Norcross is the translated to English version?

Which is why I forgot I already owned it.


No, I did not invent a whole new language. Wouldn't that seem a little silly? We can assume they are not actually speaking English and everything is translated. I have a nation calls Owlsmoor. Should I invent a new word for owl and a new word for moor? Then I can call it Zingdatbiggledrop...? And then when people say "That's kind of fucking stupid," I can respond, "Oh, see, Zingdat is what they call owls here. And biggledrop is sort of like a moor. Well, it's exactly like a moor. So when you heat 'Zingdatbiggledrop,' think 'Owlsmoor." Or should I just call it Owlsmoor?

I was looking at the map and was going to pull some city names that came from real places, but I honestly don't remember which is which.

Nation
City
Rivers

Munir
Stonefork
Ablewood
Mantrose
Aberdeen
Kirkton
Dresdon

River Fergus
River Finn
Wild River

Venlor
Oakleigh
Lerwill
Coralyn
Shield
Redpool
Avinia
Drakesport
Tenton
Donegal

Ruby River
River Halon

Falyn
Hanford

Garnock
Fairhold

Brycia
Frostmoor
Cadleigh

Tyr
Tyrhaven

Archer River

Norwood
Shadwell
Thornby

Thormond
Badenscoth

River Breamish

Lorris
Rathven

Owlsmoor
Culverhill

Nosland
Wadenhoe
Endalen
Geddington
Carradale
Aldermaston

River Fayne

Orroland
Thadlen
Whitestone
Orton
Highspire

Ivica
Allevard

Valgard
Hartshold
Langdonsburg

Sardon
Sardon

Bone River
Softwalk River

Borden Empire
Coldrain
Laxton
Norcross
Lealholm

Sevilen
Seafield
Hovingham
Sword

River Tay

Agar
Etherton

Marlow
Creighotn

Ardoch
Aynston

Rivka
Tobal

Domodar
Grimsdalen

Wemyss
Keldon

Half River

Narendra
Isparta

Morven
Serinova

Navroz
Tulari

Detrin Isles
Siboney

Torribia
Tulam

Sellat
Lan Sellay

Ralja River

Reykis
Sakrand

Forneth
Zifta

Rozene
Maradi

Sirwan River

Mennock
Saramasana

Nera River

Daligan
Pirapora
Domokos

Dogondutsi
Kenkessa

Tel
Tel

Other geograhy bits...
North Eltin Mountains
South Eltin Mountains
Elfbone Mountains
Feywall Mountains
Feyreach Mountains
Drosdon Mountains

Isles of Winter

Frigid Sea
Dawn Sea
New SEa
Sea of Borden
Padraic Sea
Wine Sea
Windy Sea
Goldspring Sea
Gulf of Sails
Tanner's Gulf
Black Bay
Sunken Bay
Bath of Scobis

Argenis Forest
Gheppora Steppes
Sands of Ignada
Dragon Marshes

I'm sure you can guess some of them, but they fit pretty well in my opinion. I'm sure I will tweak a few things here and there. I just don't see the point of making names so completely unfamiliar when we're of course translating everything back to English.

The point is I'm not looking for Paris, Atlanta, Beijing, etc. I'm looking for Whitefork, Goldford, and other such collections of letters that will have no real meaning to you but will sound like towns because they are towns.

In the part of the continent that was not conquered by an empire that brought about a shared language and was able to offer more consistency throughout than Rome because of the existence of magic and whatnot, there is a different flavor to the names.

No, that wouldn't be silly. It would be a lot of work that is, IMO, unneeded.



That is fine, and in my post I point out that is how I run things. It DOES put a limit on you, however.

Ex:
What they say: Owlsmoor
What we hear: (word for owl plus word for moor combined in a way that makes sense in their language, which could really be heard as to our ears as Zingdatbiggledrop)

Ok, so Owlsmoor works and we know it's the English version. But Hunstanton does not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunstanton
This relies on a Hun river, which England has but you probably don't: it's a proper noun. The restriction this method places on you is that you can't use proper nouns for places, people, or gods which are not known in your game world.

So, for instance, Aberdeen means "between the Dee and the Don", two rivers that it has. This means if you name something like that, it's not referencing things you can translate. The Dee river is a real river that only exists (presumably) on Earth, but Frostmoor and Fairhold reference CONCEPTS or THINGS. Much like you wouldn't want to have Thursday without Thor.


I have a partial search of these thus far:

These names refer to things that can be translated: Stonefork, Mantrose (strong man), Kirkton (church town), Ablewood (unsure), Munir (shining), Fergus (strength), Finn (fair), Wild, Oakleigh (meadow of oaks), Coralyn (maiden), Shield, Redpool, Avinia (oak field) Drakesport, Donegal (fort of foreigners), Ruby, Falyn (descended from a ruler), Fairhold, Frostmoor, Cadleigh (likely a social gathering), Archer, Norwood (northern wood presumably), Shadwell (shallow creek), Lorris (clown), Breamish (to dissolve), Rathven (hill fort), Owlsmoor, Culverhill (pidgeon hill),

These names appear made up. They are likely either in the language of your world, or a reasonable "phonetic translation" thereof: Halon (in English Halon is from Halogen),

These names refer to proper nouns in the real world: Aberdeen (refers to Dee river), Venlor (copyrighted serotonin reuptake inhibitor), Hanford (Hana's ford, but possibly some relation to chickens), Garnock (dweller by the Alder river), Tyr, Tyrhaven (both from Tyr, depicted here before running into DAT WOLF http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... to_Tyr.jpg ), Thormond (Thor's protection),

These names no one knows jack shit about: Dresden (from slavic, could refer to a certain chief or a generic term)

These names *I* don't know jack shit about: Lerwill (proper noun with no useful googlez), Tenton (ugh), Brycia, Thornby, Badenscoth (comes from Gaelic which I can't translate), Nosland (probably findable if you speak some Swedish),


.... that's as far as I got thus far.



My point isn't that they can't be English, just that you have to be careful! I'll search more later- I assume you want to avoid things like proper nouns you don't have in your world.

I think it looks like a fine list of towns and rivers. Good work zemmy.

It's a great list, but that's not the topic of the convo. Of course real town names sound real! Seeking verisimilitude dictates that we choose a level of reality to enforce- the level I choose is such that the names of things either appear in a rough phonetic translation of what they are to the people in the game world, or are instead English translations of the words they use- a town near the Rapid river might be Rapidton, but to a local they would use their word for fast combined with their abbreviation for town. You could also claim, for instance, that the names are entirely divorced- that Rapidton might not be near a rapid river, or related to rapidity, but was just chosen along with Thornton or whatever, as good names. The actual name might be entirely unrelated to the one we get as players, which would also be fine, but based on Zem's statements isn't what he's targeting. We'd likely be less enthused with Tolkein if he just called his elves Apple, Squash, and Kumquat, and told us they were placeholders because we don't speak Elvish! But neither do we need to go to the linguistic details he did.

Again, this isn't about the value of the name, and the last thing I would do is shit on the names for a game world he's had in the works since the 90s, and that is not what I'm doing. I'll also point out that you consistently are of the "who cares" opinion when it comes to most realism or verisimilitude conversations, while I believe this stuff matters very much- a difference in philosophy! If we're told the name for a place is, say, Odinsberg, it's worth asking which of the many valid explanations is happening in translation.

You want to know what's awesome...?


Garnock (dweller by the Alder river)
Thormond (Thor's protection)
Avinia (oak field)
Falyn (descended from a ruler)
Mantrose (strong man)
Norwood (northern wood presumably)
Munir (shining)

Those I completely made up. I mean, I know I made them up because I remember making them up. None of the nation names are taken from a map. To be fair, "Lorris" is a character in an obscure book that has nothing at all to do with a nation. Tel is the name of a mountain in a book as well. Again, no relation besides I liked the collection of letters. But those above started with, say "I think this capital city should start with an A... maybe a V? I don't know, let's try it out..."

I made up more of them, but I can't be exactly sure.

Tyr has a few roots. First is the god in Forgotten Realms, named Tyr. That begat the last name of Zem Tyrion. Which also may have some connection to a certain dwarf. You'll always see Tyr-something.



So trust me, I understand. I'm not going to have Odinsburg. I'm not going to have KingHenryVton. But if it's Langstonburg, then we can imagine that there was some guy named Langston in two different worlds, and that's ok. Do we all speak the same language? No. But I'm not going to come up with a difficult-to-remember proper noun for everything village when the intent is to convey a connotation with the medieval England for a large part of the map.

Tyr in FR was ofc straight out of Norse paganism- they are both honorable war gods who lose their right hand to a wolf. I mean, he's actively worshiped by thousands of heathens still!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyr_(Forgotten_Realms)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tyr

"In Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition Tyr was actually an external god that came to Toril from Earthly Norse Pantheon. As such - if an Earthly cleric of Norse Pantheon would came to Toril - thanks to a Spelljammer ship - he would be granted spells through Tyr."

I know why there's always a Tyr thing in your games- it's generally the same reason something is always named Valence in mine. But it's always been odd to me, given the real world God.


I really like how so many of those names are real names and places you independently arrived at, especially Mantrose and Munir, which I consider an unlikely series of phonemes.



I have no problem with having easy to remember English words for places. You'll notice that some of my towns have names exactly like that (Emerald, for instance). The difficult to remember proper nouns, which I make extensive use of, are not for everything, but I do feel they have a purpose in conveying the sense of the place as being sufficiently alien in some cases.

Slight apologies here. I'm going to be a bit late for gaming. The wife and I are volunteering at a Habitat For Humanity build day in Denver on the 25th. It's slated to last until 4pm or so. I'll plan to leave right from there and head to gaming. Hopefully the time I miss is mostly bullshitting.

Hopefully we can sort out the loot sometime before gaming... as discussed... prior to leaving last session...

same dinner as last time?

Moving start time to 4pm. We can get our bullshitting done, then PAR arrives, then we can die.

Okay, since no one has chimed in, sounds like we will just order dinner.

I'll just bring the usual snacks.

The dragons will be having PC steaks, with a bit of groinsauce.


I dunno what we are eating. But I think I have to start on my drinking early today.

The question shall be put forth...

February 15?
February 22?
March 1?

I work on the 22nd.

I'd vote either 15 or 1st.

Well, I'm def. free the 14th...


I'm p. sure I have a trip in February, but the date isn't set yet. I'll ask about to see if I can get something more solid.

I can't do the 15th.

I'm good for the 22nd on the 1st.

I can do the 15th or the 22nd.

Cooley, if it comes to the 22nd, what time could you get here?

Is it possible someone took the Chinese food box upstairs and into my garage? I found it on the hood of the Lemon... and I really don't remember putting it there. Nor could I figure out why I might have put it there. It's like it was on the way to the trash and got distracted.

That was me. I took it out there thinking I would find a trash can.

I rolled a one for my search and knowledge local.

Ah. I appreciate the effort, good sir. The trash can is in front of the delightful rust sculpture in the driveway.

And also for your Profession: Garbageman.

I could get there by 6:00. I am fine with that if you guys can wait.

So far every other day has been ruled out, so I'm not sure what else to do there. We still haven't heard from Sweetcheeks.

MEAN!

My travel week is the 10th, btw.

Hey I am here, sorry. I think the 22nd should be OK with me.

Well call me "Texas" and give us an update! It's-a-gamin week!