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 Post subject: A brief overview of bludgeoning weapons (stock)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:29 pm 
Master of the West Wind
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Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
Bludgeoning weapons are somewhat sparse in the stock rules, but not entirely absent. The rules don't exactly seem to cost them higher, but the developer intention is probably that they be less deadly by some slight amount than edged or piercing.

Of course, *we* care about bludgeoning weapons in greater measure than typical parties, because we have at least two known liches. The defense of the stock lich against standard melee weapons is significant: DR 15/bludgeoning and piercing. That's enough to warrant a magical bludgeoning weapon for everyone, and I think at this point everyone but Alastair has one.


Simple:
Gauntlet: The gauntlet is a bludgeoning weapon, and can be enhanced to +1. The cost is per-gauntlet. Gauntlets deal 1d3 damage and crits at 20x2. Attacking with a gauntlet is considered an unarmed attack, which I'm pretty sure means you need unarmed strike to not provoke an attack of opportunity. These are really shitty disadvantages- the upside is that if you are using medium or heavy armor, you already HAVE gauntlets, and can pay to have one or both enchanted for striking. This means that, should you spend the feat and the gold, you have a weapon you can't be disarmed of, and it adds no additional weight, and you already have it on should you be disarmed. Alastair might maybe be interested in this, but probably he has better options. The rest of us should almost assuredly avoid.

Light Mace: The light mace is a light weapon, meaning it can be dual wielded without much issue. It also is dexxy enough to benefit from swashbuckler bonuses. It deals 1d6 damage and crits at 20x2. Rene already has a pair of +1 light maces, so we are already on top of this. If you were a non-swashbuckler you would want to consider a heavy mace and a light mace, or even two heavy maces- the damage bonus is small, but you wouldn't be giving up class features like a swashbuckler would. There's no superior martial-weapon to jump all over instead of the light mace- if you need to dual wield light bludgeoning weapons, the light mace is your pick.

Club, Heavy Mace, and Morning Star: The one-handed simple weapons are all pretty similar. The club deals 1d6 damage (but can be thrown), and the other two deal 1d8 damage. All crit at 20x2. The morning star can also deal piercing damage. All of these are kinda meh compared to the martial equivalents.

Quarterstaff: A "double weapon", this inherits a Darth Maul ruleset. Incompatible with the Dex tricks of agility classes and only partially counting as a light weapon, the quarterstaff is used excellently by our cleric, who has spent the feats for it. He's definitely good in a fight!

Sling: This is the only way in stock to get bludgeoning missiles in the air. Slings were very very good in 3.0, and have been nerfed in 3.5. A sling deals 1d4 damage and crits at x2, but the real reason a sling is a weapon of last resort is not the low damage die, it is that reloading a sling is a move action, and I'm pretty sure there's no way to take a feat to make that faster. This means that you'd get a single sling shot at 1d4+Strength+magic, and then spend a move action reloading it, and maybe take a five foot step. That can be worth it, and I've considered it, but I think as a team we have better ways to deal with fliers (cast fly ourselves, drink a potion of fly, dispel the flight, get returning light hammers) than hope to whittle down some guy by hoping for outrageous fortune. Still, a solid consideration, especially if you have missile talents.

Martial:
Light Hammer: This is a top tier weapon for the job. The light hammer is similar to the light mace in melee, dealing less damage (1d4 versus the mace's 1d6), but can be thrown with a range increment of 10. This means that for medium range targets, this is an amazing weapon. So why isn't Livid, or for that matter all of us, chucking hammers like a hammer brother? Light hammers are as expensive to enchant as any other weapon, and meaningfully you need either several of them, or you need to cast returning on two or three of them. Quick Draw is also an important part of throwing, and in our group, I think only Livid has it. I will look into this later, but to attack Liches with this weapon takes a lot of magic (it's a perfectly servicable weapon should liches not be involved, however!).

Sap: Liches are immune to this I think. Fuck saps.

Shield Bash: Almost every shield can perform a shield bash. These are off-hand attacks (meaning only half strength bonus), and some can be used with dual wield easily ('light') and others pretty much don't work like that ('one hand'). Shield bashes range from 1d3 to 1d6, and when used, you lose the shield bonus until the start of your next turn. Alastair could be interested, but it costs a feat instead of just having a good weapon he can use for more damage and full strength. Probably not something any of us are going to use.

Flail and Warhammer: Both of these deal 1d8 and crit at x2. These are your best weapons for one-handed fighting if you know how to use martial weapons. The flail gets a small bonus to disarm, but both of these are solid choices for Alastair to fight with a shield, or for a dual wield ranger to wield in his main hand, or a dual wield fighter to wield in both hands.

Greatclub and Heavy Flail: If you aren't using a shield, can get to melee, but can't dual wield, these mediocre two handed martial weapons are the best bet. Both deal 1d10 damage, and the greatclub crits at 20x2 and the Heavy Flail at (19-20)x2, I think the only bludgeoning weapon in the whole game to get a good crit capability. Like most two-handed weapons, the advantages are that you don't need a bunch of feats and gold to be effective, and your first round on a new target is a lot more effective. The disadvantage is mostly that your full attack is a pale echo of what it would be if you had the ability to dual wield and a pair of weapons to go with it. After realizing that +1 returning light hammers are just too damned expensive, Livid went with a single +1 Heavy Flail and got very good mileage out of it, especially because she had haste to get two full attack swings each round.

Exotic:
The exotic weapons are all "terrible", "banned", or "banned and terrible". Mostly the latter. Many of the weapons are maybe useful for monks. A monk in our game would have an amulet of natural attacks, price be damned. He'd attack twice per round for 1d8 with his fists, and probably wouldn't care about nunchakus or sais (unless he had to hit a creature who needs silver or cold iron or some kind of fucking wood). The others are shitty double weapon versions of regular weapons, such as a ludicrous dire flail, which puts two flails on one stick.

There are definitely "holes" in the blundgeoning weapon department. For instance, there's no martial light weapon that upgrades the light mace in the same way the kukri and short sword upgrade the sickle, there's no two-handed simple weapon mirroring the spear, there's no bludgeoning reach weapon period, and there's no martial ranged option. These "holes" mean that most players don't end up with bludgeoning weapons as their primary choices by accident- they usually need some kind of weapon restriction to choose those. This omission is probably both deliberate from a design perspective and from a realism perspective, but the lack of a bludgeoning reach weapon stands out to me (lucerne hammer is conspicuous by its absence).

I think Alastair will be grabbing a warhammer, heavy mace, or flail, and getting it to be +1, or preferably +1 undead bane (+2 cost). Livid has a +1 heavy flail to hold in both hands, Rene has light maces +1 to dual wield, and Eisen has a quarterstaff +1. I don't think we'll see a repeat of the time when we were mostly unable to be effective in combat and would huddle each round and then announced "We have decided that we very much hope the smite evil hits, that is our plan!".


Tricks if we end up with more loot:

Undead bane- This is your natural progression from a +1 blunt weapon. Check with Zem: he may have banned this affix. The bane special ability costs +1 bonus, so going from a +1 weapon to a +1 bane weapon costs a list 6,000gp, and going from a +2 weapon to a +2 bane weapon costs a list 10,000 gp. A +1 undead bane weapon would be +1/+1 versus a human, but +3/+3 +2d6 versus a lich. This is expensive, but it is absolutely within our price range as long as we do sensible things with it. From a party perspective, the top choice here would be Alastair, followed probably by Eisen or Rene (those two are very close), with me in last place. Alastair would be the smartest choice because he is very difficult for an undead to turn off and attacks with the same weapon with full base attack (instead of dual wielding), and I would be the dumbest choice because in many combats I will get some ranged job, meaning the money will be wasted on those rounds.

Disruption - This is very expensive, at a +2 bonus. Since you need a +1 to have it, your weapon ends up with a pricy value of +3 (18,000 in enchantment value). Disruption forces a flat DC 14 will save on every contact with an undead creature. Mostly, this means that there's a 5% chance every hit that the undead is destroyed. This is a lot more valuable than it looks, because it allows for anyone with it to threaten to essentially end the encounter instantly at any time. This would be most valuable if you could hit multiple times with it in a round- a hasted Eisen could get three attacks per round, and a hasted Rene could get five attacks per round. Step right up, any hit could win!

Phylactery of Undead Turning- An expensive item that might maybe be in E6. Clerics and Paladins both love it!

Flaming - 1d6 of fire can add up if the lich in question doesn't have resist fire active. A relatively weak affix for a specialized weapon, and much stronger in general in other places.


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