Zem and I were discussing low magic systems.
Normally the low magic system I like the best is basically scrap the casters. I have never run anythin past five or so levels, however. The advantage to that system is simple: without any classes whose job it is to cast spells, you don't need to worry about balancing them. If most of your enemies are humans with similar class levels, the encounters are balanced (obviously am encounter with a dragon can be pretty unfair if te PCs couldn't even possibly have access to flight, energy resistance. Etc.). The disadvantage is that it throws the baby out with the bath water: you don't fix stuff, you pitch stuff.

One solution is called E6. This is basically level capped 3.0, capped at six, with feats being granted as you continue to gain xp. I think this would need a houserule ro let casters memorize more often, but by default it stops exactly at the point where sorcs get their 3rd level spells, and fighter types have the distinction of a full attack as granting a separate attack. I think this is actually pretty clever: it mostly keeps the experience ranging from realistic to heroic.

Zem had an idea about basically getting rid of the jarring spells: teleport and other manner of mastery over space, and presumably other spells that change the pacing and flavor of the game. Essentially, traveling is something the PCs only kind of do past mid levels.

Monte Cook's Iron Heroes is cool because the book basically has a bunch of fighters in it. They all have different flavor and combat specialties, but the game is very low magic. There is an arcanist, which my iPhone really fucking thinks is "sycamore". In any event, that system is pretty damned cool and applicable to low magic.

Casters are so odd because of how their power works. At any level, their highest level spells are usually more impressive than anything a fighter type can do in a round- but they can't even keep casting for even one solid minute. So great is the power that they can't rememorize all day (or gain back psps or spellslots) without resting for a night- an odd restriction that can often be worked around by choosing to camp out as safely as possible, and in any event is strange.

Most MMOs, like WoW and EQ, balance the damage done over a long term, and give the casters am amount of mana (and a way to recover said mana). So over a 5 minute fight in WoW, my rogue will deal similar damage to a Mage. A Mage cam get an advantage over a short term by choosing inefficient spells or a sequence of spells that are more damaging, but at the coat of running out of mana. Mana can be regained pretty easily: you certainly dont have to wait overnight!

Anyway!

I was also considering modifying...

1. Casting times
2. Number of spell slots per spell
3. Material cost


1. One of the problems with teleport is that you can end a battle by taking you and your closest friends thousands of miles away during your move. Even worse, you can have it such that if you are unconscious, teleport. That's pretty gay. I do no believe that "Instantaneously travel to another location you may or may not have visited before" should be a battle spell. It strikes me as something that should take around an hour of prep time. You can still spend a day as a fairy, but it takes more than 1 minute to move the whole party.

2. Imagine a situation where you have the ability to cast the spell, but it is simply more involved than others. It could be a multi-stage spell. First you cast something that locks down the current location. That is followed by a spell that locks down the teleport location. Finally, a third spell to swap them. It's considered one spell, but it takes up 3 spell slots. This means you're not going to carry around teleport all the time. It may actually take a couple days to move the entire party thousands of miles.

3. Without some cost, players will cast spells without considering what a remarkable feat it is. I don't like XP as a cost, though it does make sense for Wish. However, something like... say... the weight of everything you are transporting in silver or copper (I'd have to do the math) would certainly make people say "Hey, maybe we should walk there" if it weren't necessary to teleport.

I don't feel the need to roleplay every day on the road. At a higher level, just mention the towns you pass through. If there is something on the road, well, that can be a fun adventure. As it is, at high levels it is almost impossible to get the players involved in side quests. From where the hell would the quest come?

It's not just teleport. The shadow walk is pretty gay. I've eliminated some others as well, such as the absurd powers in Find the Path. There are a whole bunch of fantasy books out there, and rarely do mid level characters get some of these more absurd powers we find in D&D.

I really like the intent of the first paragraph. While I appreciate having rhe wizard in the party and the things he does for us (except for the incessant grabbing of my junk while in the Rope Trick), I do miss the wandering of the road and the ability to get into random trouble just by roaming on or off the road.

I'm assuming this is all for the next campaign.

I don't like the limited combat options, and the 5 foot granularity should be soft, not hard. You and an ally should be able to stand side by aide, or back to back- there should be squeezing rule.

Limited combat options means, you can't say something like, I stand here and guard the cleric. What does that mean? Is that just a readied action to attack? What about if they walk around me, why am I rooted in place? Grrr! A first level fighter moves and attacks, or he takes a full attack- same damage, same chance to hit. Shouldn't he have been able to leverage his extra time on target? 16th level fighter moves and attacks, he gets one attack, or full attacks and gets four. Really, he doesn't get like one at BAB and one at BAB-10 for his standard ? His time on target is over thrice as good as his results for the move/standard?

The teleport flavor you want is pretty much what you see in 4ed. One if their design goals was to extend the "run around Hyrule field" phase of the game, and by all accounts that was successful. You can generally also do it by creating a different mechanic to accomplish it, one divorced from the spell system.

Casting times on many spells are puzzling. No spells have a full round casting. Some have ONE round casting, which means everyone around the table has the chance to punch you in the dick. Why is it either standard (which is pretty much a sure thing), or this thing that makes you hope everyone leaves you alone? Why can't a wizard leverage a "full attack" like a fighter? And why are the power words standard actions? Unlike most other 7-9 spells with a casting time of 7+ in second and first, which is pretty slow, these had a casting time of 1.

So it is odd that so many spells have standard action casts. One would expect that to be a pricier exchange toward the high levels.

The ridiculousness of a first level character's inability to attack more than once perhaps should be addressed. I've been wondering if we should simply add one attack to everyone. I know it would get complicated, but that standard=full is silly.

Wizards don't get full round actions because that would end the game. A full round casting time, though, does seem appropriate.

OH! Wait, there is one... errr... sorta. When a sorcerer uses a metamagic feat, it becomes a full round action. A sorcerer, therefore, cannot use Quicken Spell.

I'm thinking we need to write 3.75ed.

See I was going the other direction on the attack thing. I think it is fine that a 1st level get one attack. Maybe on a full attack he could turn his extra time on target into a +1 to hit or something.

I think at high levels, your standard action or charge should maybe give you a second attack at either -5 or -10, ro represent that if you normally get 3 or 4 attacks, now you get more. If we wanted to be awesome we would base it on how far you travelled compared to your movement rate- because the 16th level fighter with two weapons moving five feet gets 8 attacks, 4 with each weapon, but the one moving 10 feet gets one attack total. What in all fuck is that shot about?

A sorcerer applying his metamagic- is that full round or one round? Remember one round means everyone has a chance to punch you in the dick.

What I mean by a wizard taking a full attack is not multiple spells, bit the ability to leverage the extra time. A wizard full-round casting could be more powerful than one standard action casting- or more to the point, the standard action wizard could be weaker. The challenge here is that it is yet another complexity to add when memorizing spells, already a high thinky activity. The other option would be to bimodalize spells to be like the weird spells that are like: cast this as a swift for blah, a standard for blah, or one round for blah.

I can see how you could divide the turn up into attacks versus movement, but I think the complexity would make it miserable. I do believe that the dynamics should not suddenly change. I think even a 1st level fighter should get a benefit from a full round attack.

Maybe, as I suggested, a 1st level character could get 2 attacks per full round, but it does not go up as quickly? Instead of every 5, it goes up every... oh... 7?

I think implementing an concept where a wizard or sorcerer gets some bonus to the DC of their spell for taking a full round action to cast it would be fairly easy.

I feel that the really tiny 1st level hit points would be even smaller if people could swing twice a round or four times with dual wield. Unless we do that thing where people have more base health, 1st level combat is already playing catch with hand grenades, especially if someone brought a greataxe- or inexplicably far worse, a scythe.

Now if we up everything (including falling damage) related to hit points to stop the sharp distinction between one attack an two, that would be ok. Mostly I think it is ok already because the -5 attack, when you first get it, is pretty lame.

I also question the value of having ANY attack at -15. I like the idea of the 4th attack, bit -15 seems harsh.

Maybe a series of easy to remember actions to help the guy who has to move 10 feet out some.