Lets use this version instead:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spel ... tning.html

Let's not. I only say that because it wouldn't have really helped us in that battle, and I'm sure it's going to be used to screw us royally in coming battles.

RETAINING Chain Lighting twice is, however, fucking amazing.

It looks to me like the differences are....

D&D: Half damage to secondary targets, everyone has the same DC.

Pathfinder: Full damage to secondary targets, secondary targets have a DC 2 lower than original.

Am I missing anything?

That is correct.

My gripe with the wotc version is just that it is generally underpowered.
First, pretend you researched a sixth level version of fireball. By the guidelines, this would be 1d6 per level, capping at 20d6, and hit a 20 foot radius.

My gripe is, if you add this spell to your spellbook, you would basically never cast chain lightning. The mechanical draw of c-lit over the other spells (lit, coc, fball) is that you choose the targets. This makes it better in close quarters, but such a sharp reduction in power is painful, especially given the other ways around damaging your friends (imp evasion, resist energy, sculpt spell, other things like sculpt). I just like the pathfinder version better.

As a side note, we'll probably use:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/polarRay.html

Or even something a bit better instead of:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polarRay.htm

Polar Ray is not ENTIRELY useless if you restrict your players to JUST the PHB spells, but outside of that it pretty much is. By rules it is close range, 1d6/level, and subject to spell resistance: the only saving grace is that there is no saving throw, but that's still not much return for an 8th level spell. But in just the PHB, you don't see a lot of the rays that the game design (and spell research) allows. Certainly any game that allows the orb spells (close range, up to 15 dice, no spell resistance, and a bonus debuff that can be escaped with a save) should buff polar ray. The pathfinder version is medium and also deals 1d4 points of dexterity drain.


Also note that though it hasn't come up much, I do have a couple house rules:

Lightning Bolt has a +2 DC to the save, and a +2 to beat spell resistance. I believe that the "X foot line" effect is the weakest in general, but I don't want lightning bolt to go away. If you research (or find) a more powerful version of lightning bolt, it will gain this benefit too.
Fireball (and Delayed Blast Fireball) can be AIMED at someone with a ranged touch attack. If you succeed at that, the ball detonates from them (obviously) and they have a -2 to the save (mostly this helps fireball a bit when you use it single target- one person getting a bit more likely to be hit is normally not worth including another target in the fireball.




And while we are talking about energy damage- I'm pretty sure my next game won't have Mass Resist Energy. I liked the dynamic of the game more before that spell came out. Players often stocked up on energy protection potions and energy resistance potions. Conservative characters (such as Rigby) find a way to resist a bunch of energies (just as they do today), while players with a ton of health, great saves, or evasive tricks rely less on such tools. But Mass Resist Energy just seems a bit low level for that effect (normally going from a 2nd level single spell to the same effect on the party makes it a 6th level spell), and is a one-stop shop for mitigating the group attacks of elemental savants, themed sorcerers, and most evil dragons. Maybe what I want is a changed version of the spell or something, I don't know, and maybe it's better from the perspective of the players, for whom many fights, Mass Resist Energy is a USELESS memorize, and a whole stack of Resist and Protection would be even worse. Maybe it would be cool if Resist energy was two friendly targets touched, instead of just one target. The other option would be to move away from elemental types of damage- but I *really like them*, and I like the way it plays out. I don't think the issue is with Mass Resist Energy (really Mass Resist Element in Caligo), I think it is that I built the world before that abjuration existed, and I already have a bunch of stuff that deals with elemental things, or deals elemental damage, and so the players experience more of that than typical, while also having typically better saves and hit points throughout the low and mid levels.

I updated the houserules with stuff in this thread, plus the feats, because apparently I didn't put that in the actual thread I made for it.


Here's a proposal for the standard:

Resist Energy
Abjuration
Level: Clr 2, Drd 2, Fire 3, Pal 2, Rgr 1, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch, Close (See Text)
Target: Creature(s) touched, targeted (See Text)
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
This abjuration grants a creature limited protection from damage of whichever one of five energy types you select: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. The subject gains energy resistance 10 against the energy type chosen, meaning that each time the creature is subjected to such damage (whether from a natural or magical source), that damage is reduced by 10 points before being applied to the creature’s hit points. The value of the energy resistance granted increases to 20 points at 7th level and to a maximum of 30 points at 11th level. The spell protects the recipient’s equipment as well.

At 6th level, the range of the spell increases to close.
At 8th level, the spell can affect an additional target.

Resist energy absorbs only damage. The subject could still suffer unfortunate side effects.

Note: Resist energy overlaps (and does not stack with) protection from energy. If a character is warded by protection from energy and resist energy, the protection spell absorbs damage until its power is exhausted.


---

Ok, and here's the Caligan version:

Resist Element
Abjuration
Level: Clr 2, Den 2, Drd 2, Drk 2, Fire 3, Pal 2, Rgr 1, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch, Close (See Text)
Target: Creature(s) touched, targeted (See Text)
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
This abjuration grants a creature limited protection from damage of whichever one of four elements types you select: air, earth, fire, water. Each element grants a resistance to damage from attacks with the elemental type and to attacks with the associated energy type. The element of air is associated with electricity, earth with sonic and acid, fire with fire, and water with cold. If you have a special ability that lets you select an exotic element, then dark is associated with guarding against divine energy such as in a flame strike, if the originating deity of that energy is good or neutral, as well holy damage, and light is associated with guarding against divine energy such as in a flame strike, if the originating deity of that energy is evil or neutral, as well as unholy damage. The subject gains energy resistance 10 against the energy type chosen, meaning that each time the creature is subjected to such damage (whether from a natural or magical source), that damage is reduced by 10 points before being applied to the creature’s hit points. The value of the energy resistance granted increases to 20 points at 7th level and to a maximum of 30 points at 11th level. The spell protects the recipient’s equipment as well.

At 6th level, the range of the spell increases to close.
At 8th level, the spell can affect an additional target.

Resist energy absorbs only damage. The subject could still suffer unfortunate side effects.

Note: Resist energy overlaps (and does not stack with) protection from energy. If a character is warded by protection from energy and resist energy, the protection spell absorbs damage until its power is exhausted.


----


The targeting and range bonuses would also apply to protection from energy (and protection from element) in like fashion, occurring at 8th and 10th levels.

Doesn't look like the changes for the first spell will have any effect on Mass Resist Energy?

No, the idea would be to remove Mass Resist Energy entirely.

I'm not quite sure why it got added to the game, but my theory is that resist and protection required stacking spells to be effective, took too many casts to function properly, and often were dead if the enemy didn't output energy damage (which in a typical campaign is less common than in my games). That's probably why it was added, and why it wasn't 6th level like say, Mass Bull's Strength- because even though they both start as 2nd level buffs, one is situational and depends on the enemy's actions (though, if the enemy DOES rely on that energy damage, it's a pretty wonderful buff, moreso than any of the +4 stats guys).

I was trying to address some of these issues while not having the single standard action solution- increasing the benefit per cast of the lower spell level guy at higher caster levels, while taking the higher level one out.

Also note- no one in Caligo has EVER cast Resist Energy, Protection from Energy, or Mass Resist Energy. The "element" variations have been houserules I've used since my first 3.0 game in college, and I stuck with them in Caligo.

This is me giving you a squint-eyed glance.

Well, you've heard my reasons for it. In Mark's game, I asked about it specifically, and he waived it off- which makes sense, as his games don't have an elemental theme, though the spell does shit on evocation hard, a spell category I think has enough natural defenses as it is. In this game, I mentioned at the start as being allowed but on watch. How do you, as a caster, like the spell? Does it feel correct?

If you happen to know what you're fighting ahead of time, then the advantage should be yours. I mean, if you know both the time of the combat and the sort of damage likely to be taken.

If you're guessing what will be behind the door before you open it, then it seems to me like burning 4 4th level spells to ensure your guys will be killed by Finger of Death or a giant with a sword instead of evocation from your pantheon of evil wizards is no small sacrifice. Of course, the evil wizards will have several other schools of magic with which to kill us or send us to other planes.

I'm still unsure of what falls into the categories...
-House rules for this campaign.
-Proposed house rules for this campaign.
-Proposed house rules for your next campaign.

As near as I can tell we're now declaring Air (electricity), Fire (fire), Water (ice and large waves or whatever), or Earth (sonic and acid).

All games I have run in 3.X have been Tanna or Caligo. Both have used Elements over energy.

This is the first game with Mass Resist, and I am definitely considering dropping it. Above is a proposes rule to mitigate the drop (the fork feature).

In all the 3.X games:

Air is things with air or electricity descriptor.
Earth is sonic, acid, and earth descriptor.
Water is Water and Cold.