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Zem
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Post subject: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:01 am |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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So, as many of you know I'm writing a bit of a book. Well, trying to. This involves creating a world and I was thinking that this world could then be folded into my future gaming world.
Now, here's the tricky part... I don't know if it would appeal to you. I understand that by the time this happens some of you may have kids in kindergarten, but quite honestly this is how I fight insomnia. I design worlds and stories while I'm trying to sleep, and eventually it relaxes me enough that I fall asleep. Since I found this trick the number of times I find myself sleepless is equal to the number of times I have made significant errors regarding caffeine. Before, it was very frequent.
So, here's what I want to know... which would appeal to you more.
Option 1: A world modeled more like the dark ages of Europe. There will be some magic, but not nearly so much as Forgotten Realms. A high level of magic creates rapid communication and travel, so most people know about the king of Cormyr or what Elminster is up to these days. In a world with less magic, that doesn't happen. You know something about the neighboring kingdoms, but it may just be rumors. You certainly have little concept of Rome unless you happen to border Rome. There is some magic, so you will be much better off than people actually living in 10th century France. Otherwise it would be intolerable. There are no guilds of wizards, there are only masters teaching apprentices. There are many gods, but your town probably only worships one. Most people living in villages would have their faith through druids anyway. Slavery happens because, hey, it's not like we can all just cast a spell and watch shit grow. There will be fewer magical items in the world, but fortunately most wizards who have figured out how to make magical items decided to beef up their body guards rather than create sticks to cast spells they can already cast. Much of the world is unsettled. That's not to say that they settled on the right half and the left half is wilderness; it means that everywhere you go there can be things lurking in the shadows. Also, since the collapse of the Roman Empire (no, it is not named that), there are a lot of abandoned fortresses out there jsut waiting to be discovered. There will be jousting. For those of you familiar with Ravenloft, I have that sort of adventure in mind. Not that it's filled with undead, but that it's dark and mysterious and that your adventures will have more local effects rather than global. You'll stop the evil duke from sacrificing virgins to a dark god at a hidden shrine in the black forest. You will not stop the wizards of Thay from expanding their influence from the embassy in Waterdeep.
Pros: With a lack of rapid communication, there is continued mystery. You do not know the world. You can't look at a map of the world and think "If I were a bad guy, I'd make my base here in these mountains..."
Cons: You might get bored of this. Also, at higher levels I will have to change some things because you can't be gods because you hit 15th level. Wizards will be more powerful by comparison because there are fewer of them.
Option 2: A more enchanted realm. Think the Rainbow Kingdoms on the island I made, where the griffon riders defended everyone. It wouldn't be quite that silly, but the idea is that it would have quite a bit more magic. Still, there won't be nearly as many high level characters kicking about. Imagine the crappy movie Excalibur, when King Arthur rides forth and spring finally comes to the land once more. Armor sparkles, knights are brave, archetypes abound, and there will be jousting. You still won't necessarily know too much about the world, but the point is that there will be more inherent magic. Some magic the wizard will not understand. Why does it rain every time he washes his horse? It's inexplicable.
Pros: Archetypes can be fun, and again you will not understand the world because it can change itself. It will be easier to maintain balance between the classes at low and high levels.
Cons: You could easily get bored of this. You may think I'm cheating at times. I'm not entirely sure how to make it work.
In any case, fuck Asia.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:18 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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I really like the idea of Option 1. That's not to say that #2 wouldn't be fun, but I really like the idea of a mysterious world, unexplored, just ready to be mapped and looted.
Fuck Asia indeed.
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Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:21 am |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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To be fair, I've put a lot more thought into my description of Option 1 because that's what I've been considering. Option 2 occurred to me today when Baldy mentioned Violet.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:11 am |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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Baldy prefers high magic, and it is worth noting that D&D is nominally designed for high magic crap.
I hope the silent 3 have a bout of constipation.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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Sweethouse
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:44 pm |
Superior Master |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:00 pm Posts: 318 Location: In your dreams
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I also really like option #1, I think that would be a lot of fun.
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PoorAssRacing wrote: I'm going to have a ringmail made entirely from Rings of Protection, so that my AC is Texas.
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:46 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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Sweethouse wrote: I also really like option #1, I think that would be a lot of fun. May your poop run freely. 
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:57 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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It may require limiting the wizard, sorcerer, and priest to something like 10th level or, perhaps, simply getting rid of the classes altogether.
Otherwise, what would stop the party from conquering the world?
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:39 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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Edited available spell lists? That would take a lot of time. Reducing the number of spells they can cast? Either across the board, or just with higher level spells. THere have to be some other ideas out there as well, by DMs who have already run into this.
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Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:43 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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PoorAssRacing wrote: Edited available spell lists? That would take a lot of time. Reducing the number of spells they can cast? Either across the board, or just with higher level spells. THere have to be some other ideas out there as well, by DMs who have already run into this. The problem with the internet is most people are retarded. I don't have the time to sort through the idiots. I know I've got years to go even if it happens at all. And since it should be obvious to everyone that Baldy is a better DM than I am by now, perhaps I can stick with being a player.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:28 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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Zem wrote: And since it should be obvious to everyone that Baldy is a better DM than I am by now, perhaps I can stick with being a player. I think he's more experienced than you are, but I had a hell of a good time in both of your campaigns. If you ended up not really enjoying it, then don't pursue it again. But if you get something brewing in your head sometime in the future, by all means, run another campaign.
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Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:27 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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He's far better at several different things. The first is engaging the players who would otherwise sit there silently and wait for a battle. The second is having a plethora of separate and ongoing plots (or maybe not separate) of which we may or may not take part.
I still enjoy it, but right now I'm glad to be a player. I really want to get past Lemons and then get into a book. Since it will likely be the same world (at least the map and names of places), that should give me a better sense of what will work.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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The Yeti
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:59 pm |
--Level 40 Elderly-- |
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm Posts: 771 Location: Zemasia
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So this is what you two were talking aboot at gaming? I'll check in to off topic a little more often.
Anyway... magic shmadfic. Lars the barbarian run all over little squishy mage!
_________________ Wouldn’t you say a bow is the same thing as a curtsy?
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Dark2040
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:21 am |
Disciple |
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:08 pm Posts: 68
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I like the low magic campaigns, of course if I am playing a magic user  Aside from reducing the number of magic user NPCs, I don't think you necessarily need to edit the spells/classes, you just make magic rare. Though increasing the price of magical items anywhere from 10x to 100x and severely limiting what you can buy and from where would be necessary. Maybe only commissioning magical items from a kingdoms wizard or something as the only source outside of crafting them yourself. Also as a way to curb the spells a wizard can cast, just have no scrolls available for purchase. This limits the wizards spells in his book to those he gets from his class only or those he could trade with another wizard...or take from his corpse. As far as being Gods at 15th level, they won't be gods-but they could probably squash a small kingdom. They won't be the only lvl 15's out there  Hell maybe one kingdoms adviser is a dragon in human shape (secretly of course)? And user his position to keep his lair isolated? Being low magic and all I can't see dragons being more than mythical to the majority of the population. Anyway just some ramblings.
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:49 am |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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I think it would be overly contrived to have a few people of high level of magic that are in perfect balance. You can have a lot of high level magic users and they will balance themselves out, but if you just have a handful, then when one of them has an off day, the next day someone else will rule the world. It would be hard to justify that. Also, as the players go to a higher level, they end up teleporting. I don't want that. I want those little bastards to walk from city to city and get in all sorts of adventures.
My solution, brought to me by cfalcon, is E6. It's D&D modified. Essentially, you only level to 6. Every 5000xp after that you gain a feat. There are new feats such as "Extra spell slot."
The keys to this... No single caster can cast anything over 3rd level. A village of angry farmers is always a threat. A "circle" of casters may create a higher level spell... such as raise dead. Players will use horses for more than 3 gaming sessions. You remain heroes, but you never become superheroes.
It's an experiment I'm going to try. Perhaps everyone will hate it, and we'll stop. We'll see.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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Dark2040
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:50 pm |
Disciple |
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:08 pm Posts: 68
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I like the circle of magic user to cast higher than 3rd level spells idea. Found the below in 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide: Adventuring in Low- or No-MagicCampaigns There are times when Dungeon Masters and players want to attempt a more “real” campaign, where flashy magic is extremely rare or nonexistent. This opens up all sorts of interesting and challenging situations, where the PCs must survive by their skills, wits, and of course equipment, alone. Magic is powerful . . . or trivial. Obviously, magic holds no threat or benefit in a campaign where none exists. In a low-magic campaign, however, magic can happen in one of two ways. In the first situation, magic is notable when it happens. Characters should be awed, frightened, or at the very least respectful when witnessing it in action. Magic is considered the work of gods and powerful wizards, and the effects it produces are enormous. Major spells usually involve numerous casters to pull off, take an extraordinary amount of time to cast, and often include a magical device to act as a power source. In the second situation, magic is extremely subtle are rarely witnessed visibly—if at all. Spells of this nature probably fall under the Divination, Enchantment, or Illusion school. A good example of “low impact” magic can be found in the witch, a variant spell casting class in Chapter 2 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide. Spell casters would advance very slowly, although they would probably be sought after as wise men or women. Magic items would be the source of many legends, quests, and adventures, even though their power pales when compared to normal campaigns. Choose your equipment wisely. Without spells to aid characters in everything from locating objects to blasting monsters, what you carry on your person is extremely important. Torches and lanterns are necessary without the benefit of light spells. Lacking fly or levitate spells, ropes and ladders would be the only way to scale walls. A flaming bottle of oil (or alchemist’s fire in a low-magic campaign) could be a great equalizer in combat, when fireballs are unavailable. In keeping with the tone of a “real” campaign, weight and encumbrance come more heavily into play. In short—if you can’t carry it, you can’t have it. This does increase the paperwork, but it also adds a gritty realism that some DMs and players enjoy. Combat, wounds, and healing. With the complete lack of, or limited, healing magic, combat is deadly. Adventurers should choose their battles wisely and be ready to run if things turn against them. Damage from exotic sources like fire, acid, or cold can have far-reaching effects that are unimportant when healing magic is readily available. The Heal skill is vital in a no-magic campaign. Without the benefit of cure, resurrection, or regeneration spells, wounded adventurers can expect to spend a great deal of time healing up between major confrontations and are dependent on trained physicians to assist them. Possessing a healer’s kit would be crucial to anyone with the skill. Remember also that the Challenge Rating of a monster assumes that PCs have ready access to healing magic. In a low-magic campaign, where healing magic is extremely limited, DMs must assign ad hoc XP awards to represent the increase in encounter difficulties (see Assigning Ad Hoc XP Awards in Chapter 7 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide. Weapons. In a world with little or no magic, the best weapons to be found are masterwork quality. The price for creating or buying one would increase dramatically: Without wizards and sorcerers capable of creating magical weapons, highly skilled blacksmiths would be in great demand—and they would not come cheap. In a low-magic campaign, possessing even a +1 weapon would be a major boon . . . and a curse. A magic weapon would instantly draw the attention of anyone who saw it for what it was, including the character’s enemies and other people who want to own it themselves. Entire kingdoms could be toppled in the name of finding (or repossessing) these relatively low-powered magic items. DMs should provide an alternate method of dealing damage to monsters with damage reduction. It can greatly add to the excitement of an adventure, however, when the characters have to fight something that cannot be harmed with mundane weapons. Nothing is scarier than watching your sword bounce harmlessly off the hide of a hideous creature! Alchemy. In a low-magic campaign, magical effects are most often found in alchemical items, which can mimic certain low-level spells. The Alchemy skill could be a great benefit to a party, although creating items might take up more time than actual adventuring. Individuals who would be considered wizards or sorcerers in a regular campaign are more likely to be thought of as alchemists (experts or adepts). Alchemy is probably the only form of “magic” that characters ever see, and prices reflect that accordingly. Adventurers can expect to pay at least twice the indicated amount, if not more. Update: If you didn't have access to this I hope it can help 
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: Theoretical campaign world... Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:46 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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While Dark's AEG guidelines do create a pretty compelling world, the ramifications of living there are such that PC casters will be in very high demand. The undertone in that post is that there are no PC casters, and enemy casters are very rare. If you have someone in your group that wants to play a caster, expect them to be extraordinarily powerful, as the normal checks and balances on their power won't be present unless you jump through a bunch of hoops (nerf most spells, nerf casting classes, configure encounters to heavily favor melee). In general, the situation presented can feel artificial.
I do recommend Iron Heroes- this is basically a book with like a bunch of fighter variants. If you play a game low magic, Monte Cooke set up a whole everything for that. I also, as you saw, recommended E6- this allows for the inclusion of casters without strange things that follow from increasing level (and not just for casters).
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