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 Post subject: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:34 am 
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http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rainbowpattern.htm

Shortened Description:

A glowing, rainbow-hued pattern of interweaving colors fascinates those within it. Rainbow pattern fascinates a maximum of 24 Hit Dice of creatures. An affected creature that fails its saves is fascinated by the pattern.

With a simple gesture (a free action), you can make the rainbow pattern move up to 30 feet per round (moving its effective point of origin). All fascinated creatures follow the moving rainbow of light, trying to get or remain within the effect.

Now, the keyword here is "fascinated". That's a status effect as follows:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSumm ... fascinated

A fascinated creature is entranced by a supernatural or spell effect. The creature stands or sits quietly, taking no actions other than to pay attention to the fascinating effect, for as long as the effect lasts. It takes a -4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat, such as a hostile creature approaching, allows the fascinated creature a new saving throw against the fascinating effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the fascinated creature, automatically breaks the effect. A fascinated creature’s ally may shake it free of the spell as a standard action.

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So if you cast this in the town square, you fascinate probably almost 20 people. You can lead them around in circles. If you want to show your villagers a spectral good time, this is the spell for you!

But look at the definition of "fascinate". Does this even WORK on monsters that are in combat? Do they get a second save right away if hostilities have already broken out?

As worded it seems that this spell is extremely terrible. They mindlessly follow the pretty lights, but they keep 360 degree situational awareness in case you draw a weapon, aim a ranged weapon at them, or "approach", whatever the hell that means. And of course an ally can shake it free as a standard action- or possibly somehow convince the fascinated creatures that it's an ENEMY, in which case, I think, the effect just goes away.


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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 8:42 am 
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So what you're saying is, this is the next spell going in your spellbook? ;)

Wow, what a worthless spell.



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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:09 pm 
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Picking spells requires a lot of thought thus far, though a detailed list of that would go under our campaign forum.

For third level spells, I have Fireball and Invisibility (for those not in the game, we have all invises houseruled a level higher), with two more picks coming from 6th level. I'll probably go for Dispel Magic and Fly, but I could be convinced to go for something else in the spot of fly. I require a certain number of Abjuration spells to qualify for my prestige class (Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil)- basically I need two 4th level abjuration spells and one of any level. Since I'm going to want Dispel Magic eventually ANYWAY, that seems an easy qualifier, and I can pick it up when it's a sure thing. I suspect we'll want a splatbook for at least one of the two 4th level abjuration spells, but in any event it leaves me with two picks for 4th level, in some future. I'm leaning towards Solid Fog and Charm Monster, but Rainbow Pattern, Resilient Sphere, Fear, Mass Enlarge, Polymorph, any of the "Orb" spells, and a couple others are contenders as well.

Obviously I *want* Rainbow Pattern to work, but I can't recall it EVER being cast in one of my games. Presumably if you cast it during a battle, it has some effect, and presumably fascination isn't supposed to let you just assassinate people, but it just seems off if you line up the text.


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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:59 am 
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cfalcon wrote:
Obviously I *want* Rainbow Pattern to work, but I can't recall it EVER being cast in one of my games. Presumably if you cast it during a battle, it has some effect, and presumably fascination isn't supposed to let you just assassinate people, but it just seems off if you line up the text.

What if they're fascinated and can't see/hear the rogue sneaking up behind them? :twisted:



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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:41 am 
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PoorAssRacing wrote:
cfalcon wrote:
Obviously I *want* Rainbow Pattern to work, but I can't recall it EVER being cast in one of my games. Presumably if you cast it during a battle, it has some effect, and presumably fascination isn't supposed to let you just assassinate people, but it just seems off if you line up the text.

What if they're fascinated and can't see/hear the rogue sneaking up behind them? :twisted:

That sounds like it, particularly with the -4 to spot and listen checks.

I don't think this was intended for battle. I think it was intended to distract the guards while you sneak in or something of the sort.



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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:28 am 
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-4 to listen and spot is the penalty for being fascinated- but can you imagine ANY time you'd use this spell to sneak somewhere? Remember that in normal D&D it's one level higher than invisibility sphere, which I'd say is a little more effective for sneaking around as a group (and it's tied with the invis houserules).

Also note that nothing says subtle like WAVES OF PRISMATIC COLORS, RIPPLING DOWN UPON EACH OTHER, WAVERING IN THE NIGHT AIR. Anyone who passes their save gets to both jostle his buddies awake AND to sound the alarm, assuming everyone else isn't all over that already.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/lullaby.htm

This is only -2, but if they pass their save they don't start wondering about the shimmering rainbow above them, nor is it a light source. It's also 0th level.


In other words, if you look at the fascinated effect, it looks like it's good for making someone unawares, or sneaking around or whatever. If you read the spell, it looks like a combat spell- it has a hit dice limit, it has verbal, somatic, material, and a focus, it effects an area, and it's a fatty fourth level spell.

I found my 2ed handbook again, and read the second edition version, and you see most of the same text, except that the fascinate effect is spelled out in the spell itself- causing a creature damage breaks it, not merely being threatened, etc. I would say that that's the intent of the spell. I think it was a case of linking it to an effect that they had defined without much thought.


I dunno what the right way to play the spell is. If you took the 2ed version, where anyone who failed the save was out of comission as long as you didn't shoot them in the face, that might be too strong for a 3ed spell- narrowly (you could still wake them up, after all).


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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:46 am 
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Well, yeah, I'm not saying I would ever use it. I understand you have a strong gay desire to use any spell with pretty colors, but sometimes the spells are just too limp wristed to be useful.



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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Well, it might just be terrible. It's *intended* to be a combat spell, by whomever wrote the damned thing originally, but when it got ported to 3.0 they clearly fucked it up by accident.

I don't think I've ever had a PC cast it. I'm almost sure no NPC has cast it.


If you think of a way it can be useful, feel free to houserule it, and I'll borrow it for whenever I run a game. Otherwise it's probably something you use to impress peasants, distract a very small enemy camp, or otherwise allow your team to hide, and buff up? I'm still uncertain. I think the fascinate descriptor itself is written oddly.

But in the mean time, it's not on any list for early fourth level pick. It never was. I was just wondering if I could maybe work it in, because, you know, shiny.


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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:33 pm 
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Yes, I know exactly why you decided to be upset over what amounts to an inability to use a spell that has a rainbow in it and not the plethora of other worthless spells out there.

Maybe you can choose to fascinate yourself with the rainbow pattern. It can put you to sleep if you suffer from insomnia.



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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Well, upset is a strong term. I'm just in a clash between a spell I *want* to cast, and the fact that it's mechanically useless or bad- and probably by accident, as it was just grandfathered in from second.

But don't worry, everything with "prismatic" in the name is great! Expect to be asked for careful description about exactly *how* the colors interplay!


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 Post subject: Re: When can you even use Rainbow Pattern?
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:53 am 
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Expect an answer that involves "all the horses of Palm Beach polo club" and "your mom."



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