This is Scott, Chris's brother. I finally did it; I finally changed to 3.5. It took me reading it from a DM's perspective and a little prodding from some friends. Yeah, you guys were right. 3.5 is better in every way (except for initiatives, but its a small detail)

So I am running a Ravenloft campaign. Its my favorite campaign setting and the one I know the best. I am converting my 2nd ed campaign over to 3.5, no small task. Since I know the setting so well I only need to convert NPC's that aren't already in the Ravenloft 3.5 campaign books, but there is still a ton to do, as well as work out the bullshit I dont like. However, I am having a difficult time choosing what these NPC's should have, both villains and allies. There are a vast number of feats as well as prestige classes. What I would like help with are some ways to build mages and priests, as well as what are sensible stacks. I have every book for 3.5 as well as every one for Ravenloft. There are a some prestige classes that simply wouldnt fit the Ravenloft flavor, but I would take all suggestions. It also seems that some of the Ravenloft prestige classes are not as high powered as those outside the setting.

If I could get a couple builds of various levels on some mages and priests that would be appreciated. Some rogue character ideas could help, too. I will give a brief list of some characters I will be creating, both allies and villains, as well as the idea behind them. Keep in mind that in Ravenloft no one can detect good or evil alignments. Also, humans are the dominant race. Non humans are regarded with suspicion and sometimes outright fear and hatred. Mages are also rare and are often thought of as witches or warlocks.

- (Ally) A female half-elf or human rogue, LE in alignment. I will probably have her do a 1/4 leveling in fighter because I imagine her to be able to hold her own in combat. The idea behind the character is that she is sent by a lich darklord who wants her to aid the PC's in the events that follow, as well as act as his eyes and ears. The lich plays a major role in the end of the campaign and is a puppeteer in the events of the campaign. She is part of a cult that seeks immortality (the Kargatane) and serves immortals (the Kargat). The Kargat are the "secret police" of the lich lord, and the order is comprised of vampires, werebeasts, and other supernaturals. This fact is unknown to the Kargatane. who believe the Kargat are "alive" immortals. It is very likely that at the end of the campaign she will be against the PC's and maybe turn up as a recurring villain in 1 or 2 other future campaigns if she survives. I have some of her made already, but would like suggestions.

- (Ally) A human wizard who is a specialist in necromancy, conjuration, and divination. In 2nd ed they had a type of wizard class called an archanist that fit this. He will not have access to the "opposed" schools to these 3 (dont know yet if there are opposed schools in 3rd), with the exception of alteration. The idea behind this character is he is an occult interested mage posing as a doctor and scholar; he did study at an university for what would be considered more advanced science for medieval times and has a privileged upbringing. His alignment will likely start of as NG or TN and have a good chance of slipping into darkness, but not necessarily become an enemy unless the PC's make him one. Also, a high leveled projection of what a character like this would be would be nice as the players will likely be meeting a mentor of his who will be around on and off throughout the campaign.

- (Ally) A priestess of a goddess (Ezra) devoted to healing and protecting the weak. The main faith is LN, but there are 3 splinter faiths spread throughout the land: LG, TN, and LE. The church is a powerful and influential one in most of the lands. Very hierarchical like the Catholic Church, similar in ceremony and practice. Now in the 3.0 Ravenloft books they have multiple different prestige classes that reflect the different priests of the faith, but in 3.5 it states that the priests are just clerics; I am likely to mix this for flavor. I havent decided on what align she will be (the TN sect is much more "mystical" in thought), but in keeping with the general faith she will use heavy armor, a kite shield (part symbol) and a longsword (the favored weapon).

- (Ally, contact or enemy) A priest of a god called the Lawgiver (in 2nd ed called Bane, but not necessarily the same as the Toril one). The faith is LN or LE, with a strong siding to LE. The faith holds that all people are born into their lot in life and can not rise above. Those that are born into wealth and power deserve it while those born lower deserve what they get through faithful service. This religion has much power in a small portion of the lands and regards the other faiths with disdain (as most of the Ravenloft religions view each other). Since even the priests of different social classes dont mix, I havent decided which he will come from. Probably a higher one if I want him to be even more of a dick and be LE. The land in which he will come from once resided in Toril, in case that helps with ideas. The priests favor heavier armor and the favored weapon is a whip.

- (Ally) A NG bard turned TN avenging warrior due to a vampire stealing his fiance and then slaying his father and siblings in revenge for bards retaliation, which was destroying her on reawakening. He is likely to be a warrior lighter on his feat and quick with a blade but not a swashbuckler. There is a Ravenloft prestige class called the avenger that I will use, as well a a feat called Cold One (which is a character who has a near death experience with an energy draining undead). What I would like to know is how to make a good lighter armed warrior type. This would be probably easy for me to build on my own, though insight is nice.

- (enemy) A NE priestess of the undead with a demonic bent. Probably worships Orcus. She is a enemy in one adventure. When she is defeated she will return later in the adventure as a wight. For some reason this build seems a little difficult to me.

- (enemy) A LE priestess of Set posing as a priestess of Osiris. Another difficult build for me. I would like her to have some exotic flairs to her as she will be encountered in an Egyptian setting for that adventure; maybe some arcane spellcasting for something different. She is a big part of that particular part. She is also aided by a greater mummy priest who may also turn her into a mummy servant should she fall.

Thanks for any help given. 3.5 is just a fantastic system, but a little overwhelming. Especially trying to rework a campaign to it. I will likely post up more characters I will need help with as well as other ideas. In this campaign there are a lot of undead, golem, werebeast, demon/devil and other supernatural templates I will have to get used to building. I may not be able to post here much but I will check back when I can. Again, thanks for any help.

Scott

I won't say EVERY detail, but definitely initiatives is one way that previous versions are better. Back during the release of 3.0, they basically said, "try this way, it's just more streamlined and much faster". And, it is. But it greatly loses the simultaneity of previous versions, and a lot of strategy that they had to put back in elsewhere, as well as a valuable distinguishing factor between powerful spells and weapons versus "weaker" ones.



I actually never did this. If and when I run Kylon again, I suspect it will be 2ed. That's not a trivial change at all man!



Ok, first- I would assume you are planning to run this mostly as 2ed was intended- meaning, you aren't planning a hybrid craziness. For instance, you probably aren't planning on using Incarnum, or Book of Nine Swords. And presumably, most of your NPCs will be something like "Wizard 16" instead of "Wizard 3 / Master Specialist 6 / Initiatite of the Sevenfold Veil 7".

In my 3.X games, I have always limited characters to one prestige class, and no more than three classes total- my theory being, at that point, you lose a lot of the distinction the classes are meant to provide. Some people view classes as just something you write down, not related to your player at all. For instance, someone who wants to play a paladin would probably go cleric with some cleric prestige classes- on the assumption that this is a more powerful build than, you know, an actual paladin.


So, for this response, I'll assume you mostly meant it that way. If you didn't- if you want high-op solutions- I would recommend checking out some other boards, as we lack the expertise to play in the unrestricted 3.X land effectively.


For feats:

I'm personally of the opinion that NPCs shouldn't be built for just that one encounter with the PCs- but SOME maybe should.

A caster who isn't just built for kill-the-PCs will sometimes have an item creation feat, and likely an item he created, probably mostly expended. Wizards get scribe scroll, and should ALWAYS be found with some utility scrolls on them, along with whatever the hell one uses to scribe scrolls. Casters built for things besides that might have the reserve feats from Complete Mage- these feats would help them level and adventure. Feats that MIGHT matter versus the PCs (such as Spell Penetration) are also nice to include- these guys are powerful casters, they probably have to overcome the weaknesses of demons or angels or something sometimes. They may also have some social feats instead, to help them build up to their positions of power, and have even taken Leadership. While Leadership is pretty much not balanced as a PC feat, as an NPC feat it's pretty much throwaway, but it makes sense for someone to have such a feat. If you are in a rush, you can simply cross out about a third of the feats a given character should have and assume that they helped him get where he is, but won't help him in a fight.

Now, on to the GOOD feats:

Alacritous Cogitation is a feat that lets your wizard basically cast a spell he doesn't have memorized, at the cost of leaving one blank spot in his memorized spells. It has a cast time restriction (one full round), but definitely gives you justification to pretty much call out WHATEVER spell you feel like, once (ideally you thought of it ahead of time when you generated the spellbook, of course). This is also a good spell for a PC.

Spell Focus is a generally good feat for a caster- with it, you can guarantee that at least some of the spells the NPC is casting will be more likely to hit. It also affects the fight- if you say "DC 18 whatever save", that's scarier than DC 17. The spell will only land 5% more often (or 10% with the second feat), and won't affect most encounters, but the number being bigger is scarier and creates excitement.

Of the Three Thunders and Black Lore of Moil I view more as flavor feats. These are in the complete whatevers. They generally make one spell more dangerous, but they mostly add flavor. I like these a lot.

Empower Spell is generally good for anything that blasts. Silent and Still spell are good for lots of folks (I combined these into one feat in my game, Subtle Spell). Maximize is often ok too, and Quicken is pretty much a great idea for any cleric or wizard past about 11th level. These are all Core feats, and I normally include at least SOME metamagic. Split Ray is pretty broken- if you use it as written, assume some PCs will be interested. By default, it lets you get one extra ray at +2 spell levels. This is perfectly fair for scorching ray, but is a bit frustrating for disintegrate. In any event, the intention is clear- you can duplicate a spell, if it is a ray, for less than the normal +4 spell levels.

+Save feats help anyone- and NPC casters WILL be making saving throws.

Energy Substitution and Energy Admixture help if you are making a evocatey (EvoKatie?) kind of caster.

There is a feat called "Arcane Thesis", only good for wizards- this feat lets pick one arcane spell, and every time you apply metamagic to it, it costs one less. So A still silent empowered maximized cone of cold would be 8th level. There is another similar feat that only works with spells of a school, and only up to 3 per day, but is also strong.


Clerics can use some of the feats that let them turn their Turning attempts into whupass. Divine Metamagic is a pretty clear ban in my games, but you might find use for it (the historical use has been to use it to power the long term all day buff spells- an NPC using this technique pretty much needs to have greater dispellings thrown at them for a round or two before they are anything resembling mortal). Divine Metamagic aside, the others are playable and not way to good, and I think are in either Complete Divine or Complete Champion.

Improved Initiative is always good for NPCs, but don't give it to all of them- remember that PCs take the feat sometimes too, and should be rewarded for that. If you buff toughness so it is +1 hp per hit die (min of 3), then it's ok too. One thing about NPCs, is that their hit points tend to get used up!



I strongly suggest you impose complete control over allowed classes and prestige classes- especially for Ravenloft.



There is a "master spy" prestige class that might help you here. For this character, a lot of effort needs to be put into her skill points, and be free about rolling shit behind the screen. She can probably fool the PCs and manipulate them when necessary, but also NPCs as well. A few levels of fighter synergize very well with rogue for these purposes. Consider giving her one or more of the +skill feats, such as Skill Focus: Diplomacy (or Bluff), and maxxing ranks in that.



You are mostly customizing here. The opposed schools were mentioned in 3.0 and dropped in 3.5- and in any event, specialist wizards can pick them. I would go with a standard specialist wizard, allowing transmutation (alteration got rolled into that officially) and the three you listed, along with universal, and that's it. More details about the original class would probably help too- what did he get over a normal specialist necromancer, for instance? What did he lose compared to one? It sounds like he should maybe have even more spells per day than a specialist wizard, because he will have so few allowed schools.



It sounds like you have this one under control. Give her a feat to use the weapons a bit better, and make use of the priest buffs that make them fucking rock in melee. Depending on her level, she has a way to cast them as a swift or immediate action? (such as quicken spell, or a custom item)



Whips and heavy armor are a hard match in 3.X, probably because such an idea is silly. I would either change the whip to a special magic whip, -or- give him armor that works very well with a good Dex, and make sure he has that (mithril full plate could work for that, but is very pricey). Check the whip rules, and I think Pathfinder has some whip feats that make it good:
(these are not D&D, these are Pathfinder, but they would apply if you allow them)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... ery-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... ery-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... ery-combat

Heavy armor and a spiked chain! YES!

Hi Mongo!

I think this thread just gave me a boner.

Here's a tip, Mongo. Ban the spiked chain. I didn't, and that was a mistake. It is by far the most powerful melee weapon, and it indicates that if a single army of pre-gunpowder Europe had been equipped with spiked chains instead of swords or polearms, we'd all be speaking that language.

I can't offer much more than what John said unless you want some translation from his High Need language.

I have two problems with the spiked chain:

1)- Makes a claim about historical weaponry- notably, that it mostly sucked, and that our ancestors should have had this retarded spiked chain thing.
2)- It's generally just too good to be a weapon within the rules of the game.


It's odd that the most interesting feature of the spiked chain, the double square threat, ONLY appears on the spiked chain. No one else can lunge with a sword or whatever- just this crazy chain. The chain (a wholly fictional weapon unrelated to the manriki-gusari) varies in its depictions and descriptions, but the idea seems to be that it's a chain with spikes on it (and in some iterations, a way to hold it without it actually causing damage). So this chain could, in likelihood, be 10 feet long- but many other weapons that can extend to this length don't get this very favorable interpretation, and they have the solid benefit of actually existing too.

The method of attack with this chain is never specified, but it seems to be that you swing the chain in some fashion- be it overhead, or by holding it in two places and whipping the spiked edges at your foes.

So, the game views the guisarme as such:

Martial 2 Handed Weapon. Reach. 2d4, 20x3 crit. Trip.

And the spiked chain is famously:

Exotic 2 Handed Weapon. Reach -and- nonreach. 2d4. 20x2 crit. Trip. Disarm (+2).


So, the "exotic weapon proficiency" feat in this case, plus downgrading from "average" to "poor" crit (19-20x2 and 20x3 are the same on average: 20x2 is as bad as it gets) is worth the following:

-Super Reach
-Disarm

That doesn't sound unfair... just how good is the super reach?

Well, throughout most of a campaign, it's honestly not a big deal. But there's plenty of situations where it really breaks the story you want to tell. For instance, in this world Miyamoto Musashi would definitely have used this spiked chain. The advantages in melee are large, and it closes off options that no other weapon can easily touch. The general feel you have in using the spiked chain is that you give up that extra crit that you "deserve" in exchange for the extra spot of reach- the trip and the disarm honestly feel like EXTRA. Of these two, trip is far superior- the difficulty is often similar of pulling off either trick, but tripping a caster is a lot more useful than disarming them. In either event, certainly you will find a number of tricks with tripping, even if you fix the like, seven hit redizzy combo crap that most DMs do.


If you go and arm some mooks with longswords and have them charge the PCs, one of whom has the chain, you'll first see the chain guy acting like he has a polearm- he trips them as they come in with one or more free attacks, etc. The next round, he'll use his five foot step to maneuver to hit what he wants to hit, or avoid what he doesn't want to. Lots of free attacks versus little bads. If there's a big guy, the PC can move away each round, denying full attack but instead trading single hit for single hit.

Ok, now it's the PC's turn, and he has a spike chain. He has many options available: he can attack the guys that closed, or he can move around and still probably get his licks in on anyone he wants. If the opponent is higher level than him, he should try the trip. This works even where the guisarme can be played around- you can get around such a hook by moving close in versus a wall, for instance. Lacking the ability to back up, the polearm weilder has to make different plays. The polearm wielder has to constantly make sure that he isn't getting involved in too rough a situation: the spiked chain wielder gives not the pungent SCENT of a shit about that.

You can also crowd a caster super well. Without further investment or trickery, simply move up to a caster, and attack. Try to trip. If you succeed, he's pretty boned- he needs an action to do anything. If you fail, he's stuck casting defensive- and if your game allows wacky feats like Mage Slayer, then he's also pretty much done unless you have some still spells prepped.


I've never seen a PC pick a guisarme. I've seen a BUNCH of spiked chains. The polearms are often not huge favorites, but these weapons are almost identical, except for super reach at the cost of a feat- and super reach keeps winning out. It's not like these folks love spiked chains- most can't describe it, not even the fictional one in the book.


So yea, ban that thing

Thanks for the tips everyone.

I almost never do this. The only time I have is when the PC's build characters that are broken, which I discourage. I plan on having NPC's take feats and skills that wont apply to an encounter, and have already done this with a group of warlocks they have encountered.

The main reason why I wanted to know the good feats is so I have the option to build stronger NPC's and also be aware of when the PC's take good stacks. I am a big advocate of the "fluff" stuff in the game.



I will allow them to do whatever build they want, but they also know I reward good, sensible roleplaying. One player already told me his intentions to have his paladin take the kensai and anointed knight classes. I said it was fine but looked up "paladin optimization" and the first thing that came up was "paladinzilla" with that exact stack. So my plan was to allow him to kensai since he already has had training built in to his background but make him find a anointed knight to train under when the time comes. However, classes like that are exceedingly rare in Ravenloft. On his world those classes might be plentiful but not where he is now. If he really wants to he could seek one out, but it would be very tough and he would have to earn it. The little shit cant pull one over on me that easily. Cant blame him too much, he is new to table top games and has only played console and computer RPG's.



The original 2nd ed "arcanist" class described him as a specialist in necromancy, summoning, and divination and allowed abjuration as the 4th school. Not very strong on the standard offense spells but fit the flavor. As far as abilities they had the +2 on saves for themselves and -2 for opponents vrs necro, summoning and div. I see that 3.5 doesnt give the specialist any feats like that as bonuses; do you think this would break the class if I gave them something akin to this? They also get the +25% learning bonus for those schools. Arcanists receive turn/command undead depending on alignment. They also have a "dark lore" ability that was like the 2nd ed bard lore ability, but it applies to occult and other things of a darker nature; like undead and demons. Any ideas on how to make a 3.5 version of this? Ravenloft 3.5 came up with a "white arcanist" prestige class but it isnt quite what I am looking for.

What are your opinions of granting certain feats as rewards for good roleplaying or as rewards for accomplishing certain tasks? Feats that no player will take, like Toughness. I have tossed around the idea and have given some to NPC's I have started to create that would just help the flavor of the character. I am not talking of ones that would outbalance anything.

I havent even looked at it yet but the idea of a spiked chain seems retarded except for certain enemies like the kyton devil. Or a cynobite from Hellraiser.

I will post more later, as well as more character ideas. The lady and I need steak. Lots and lots of steak. Again, thanks for your advice everyone. I also would like to join one of your sessions again and see how you run a game

Haters gotta hate.

If a prestige class requires a certain number of ranks for a skill that means you have to buy it with skill points, right? Ability modifiers and synergy do not count?

Correct.

Yarp. And make sure you're enforcing the maximum skill points per character level (level + 3 for class skills, 1/2 level + 3 for cross class...I think).

It's (3+level)/2 I believe. It allows you to invest the same number of skill points, but they just count for half as cross class.

Yeah that's what I thought.

If you are single classed, it's easy:

1)- If you spend skill points in a class skill, then you gain one rank per skill point spent. Your maximum is (class level +3).
2)- If you spend skill points in a cross class skill, then you gain one half a rank per skill point spent. Half ranks are real, but are rounded down in all checks- so having 4.5 ranks in ride from spending 9 skill points is the same as having 4 ranks on all your die rolls.

When you gain a second class, things get a TINY bit more complex:

1)- When you gain a level in any class, you may spend points for that class's class skills normally- each skill point you spend gains you one whole rank.
2)- When you gain a level in any class, you may spend points for that class's cross class skills normally- each skill point you spend gains you only one half a rank.
3)- The difference? Your max ranks. Your maximum ranks for a skill that is a class skill for ANY class you possess, are equal to (character level +3). Your maximum ranks for a skill that none of your classes have as a class skill is equal to (character level +3).


So if you have 5 levels of rogue, and have 8 ranks of hide, and then you gain a level of fighter, you could spend two skill points to make hide go to 9.




Pathfinder simplifies all skills greatly. Perhaps a bit too much, to be honest. But everything above is accurate for 3.0 and 3.5.