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The Yeti
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Post subject: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:25 pm |
--Level 40 Elderly-- |
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm Posts: 771 Location: Zemasia
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Keen looks like all sorts of fun. Mark should give that to one of Signy's weapons, you know, because she never got the pegasus.
Some others I found are "stealer", "vampiric", and "blur".
I also read that the chain does piercing damage. I always assumed it was blunt, but it makes sense that I could do both (hence the 2d4 dmg roll)?
_________________ Wouldn’t you say a bow is the same thing as a curtsy?
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:15 pm |
Site Admin |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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The greatest trick the spiked chain ever pulled was convincing the world it existed.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:53 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Quote: The greatest trick the spiked chain ever pulled was convincing the world it existed. This is the best line on the forums, by the way. Keen is better on a weapon that has an enhanced threat range. The spiked chain doesn't have this- it's not the most optimal use of an enchant +. But it's not bad. I'm not familiar with those attributes actually- what do they do? Cool book enhancements for a spiked chain: Brilliant Energy- This is worth I think +4 by the book, so it's not a casual enchant but a weapon defining one. It makes the weapon only able to attack living flesh- so it can't hurt undead (I houserule that part away), or constructs, or objects, and it ignores AC bonuses from armor. Dancing- This is cool because you set it to dancing then you start working with your SECOND spiked chain. Spell Storing- Eron or Yenrab can cast a targetted 3rd level spell into the weapon. When desired, you can TRIGGER this spell. This costs a +1 bonus, and can be used VERY strategically. It also will generally deal more damage than a +1 bonus over a short fight. Human Bane- You guys need this on like, EVERYTHING. It's like mayo- everything is a little juicer with it. Non standard ideas: Anything that ups the damage dice from d4s to d6s. Stupid caltrops. Anything that can trigger a save or be stunned. An ability that lets the chain zap out to 15 feet for one attack- useable how often? Slickness- The chain can't be used to trip the wielder, and maybe the chain ignores 1 point of deflection bonus to AC? It's piercing because it has the spikes on it, and theoretically, they could hurt. Presumably it could be used as Just A Chain, but it would in no way be at 2d4 damage. Just A Chain would presumably be like, 1d6 maybe? If weapons are allowed to be wielded improperly for different damage types that's fine, but Zem needs to be happy with houseruling the damage. Does it become nonlethal?
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The Yeti
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:22 pm |
--Level 40 Elderly-- |
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm Posts: 771 Location: Zemasia
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Stealer- +4 to disarm checks. If successful, the stolen weapon sticks to the this weapon. The wielder may take the weapon or have it drop within one square adjacent to them as a free action. Vampiric- living opponent (I assume this negates undead) takes 1d4 dmg and the wielder heals that same amount. If wielder is at full health, the points become non stacking temporary hp that fade after an hour. (Pretty neato) Blurstrike- the weapon and arm wielding it becomes blurred, causing the first melee attack each round with the weapon to treat the target as flat-footed. Foes w/ uncanny dodge, or do not rely on sight are immune. Dancing sounds like loads of fun! 
_________________ Wouldn’t you say a bow is the same thing as a curtsy?
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:52 pm |
Site Admin |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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It's so sad, you know? The rats, the mosquitoes, the gnomes.... none of them knew they were carrying that awful Removis Annoyus Virus. They certainly didn't know that it would infect and kill everyone with the Flamegay gene, which is necessary for anyone to take the Craft Arms and Armor feat. It's a shame.
We'll see. Keep in mind that I consider Vampiric and Human Bane to be evil.
Also, there's no way in hell any of you should expect to find Spell Storing anywhere.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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cfalcon
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Post subject: in which godwin is invoked Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:07 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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DON'T WORRY WE HAS REMOVE DISEASE
I'll play devil's advocate on Human Bane, because you know my opinion on the ability (ban it). Why would it be evil? Are all the banes evil? What about drowbane? The source material has stuff that is "bane" that is associated with good deities- relics and such. Humans are considered a "neutral" race, but of course the understanding is that they are the light of the world- without them the other races would do their own thing, the elves would live in some kind of paradise, and eventually some dragon would come along and burninate stuff. The rules don't state this, and neither does the campaign setting, but it's a pretty basic assumption, so I see how you would tag it as evil for being in opposition to something that is good mostly.
But would a weapon with +2 to hit HITLER really be bad? Why are you defending Hitler!
Vampiric doesn't have a game effect that sounds evil, but if it flat out says "vampire" and it drains life, then that's pretty much got to be evil.
Spell Storing, while good, is not something my players ever even *asked* for, even with weapon customization available to them (sometimes for free as part of a weapon level up). Unless you have some great exploit or just trust our ability to come up with something, how much power is front loaded 3rd level spell?
Once I ran a game that was meant to be short. It ended up being about twice as long as envisioned, but was still pretty short. Instead of going the typical route of saying, here's your cash, go buy items (I had a mix of folks who were veterans and some who were not), I listed about thirty or so items on a page. I gave each one a cost of "red" and "blue" points. I gave out like 8 red points and 4 blue points to each player. Pretty much everything cost red points, and one red point could make a bunch of potions or a couple wands or a bunch of scrolls. The blue points were meant to be more limiting, and spent on your bigger items.
But I had ring of spell storing available (five levels of spells). I might have had the major ring of spell storing available. I put these a little bit lower than they should- in part because I'd never seen them chased after. Alan, who converted the values back to gold, pointed out that these were the best deal (and I don't think that they cost any blue). So many of the characters had one. It was pretty interesting, but to this day I didn't find the characters having the extra utility to be broken- and the weapon of spell storing is a lot more limiting, as you can't hold an area effect spell in it.
Blurstrike sounds a little exploity. Because it actually invokes a status condition, but only sorta. Does it work against barbarians? Some characters are all about a high Dexterity, and normally those characters are not the ones that need a hard counter, normally. This ability lets a ninja surprise attack each round- now, that's still not as good as sneak attack (which the rogue can do multiple times), but the ninja is normally expected to burn his ki pool in order to be competent briefly and actually use surprise attack. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's definitely odd. If allowed, I would say consider it for sure. Brilliant Energy, which ignores armor, is a +4 bonus in cost. What's the bonus on the thing that ignores Dexterity?
Stealer sounds pretty good, but would require different strategies. One of the advantages of the disarm specced player is taking weapons away first thing rules, because you are a lot more likely to have the weapons when you are done.
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: in which godwin is invoked Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:16 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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cfalcon wrote: But would a weapon with +2 to hit HITLER really be bad? Why are you defending Hitler! Sorry, this was hilarious.
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Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: in which godwin is invoked Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:35 am |
Site Admin |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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cfalcon wrote: DON'T WORRY WE HAS REMOVE DISEASE
I'll play devil's advocate on Human Bane, because you know my opinion on the ability (ban it). Why would it be evil? Are all the banes evil? What about drowbane? The source material has stuff that is "bane" that is associated with good deities- relics and such. Humans are considered a "neutral" race, but of course the understanding is that they are the light of the world- without them the other races would do their own thing, the elves would live in some kind of paradise, and eventually some dragon would come along and burninate stuff. The rules don't state this, and neither does the campaign setting, but it's a pretty basic assumption, so I see how you would tag it as evil for being in opposition to something that is good mostly.
But would a weapon with +2 to hit HITLER really be bad? Why are you defending Hitler! Knowing you would as this at some point, I already thought about it. A weapon magically designed to optimize killing good or neutral races is going to be considered evil. Elfbane, dwarfbane, etc are evil. Drowbane is not evil (it's not good either). I'm debating an exception that regardless of what sort of race one might be, using a bane of one's own race is inherently evil. I'm not sure on that one. Though bane weapons exit, I have thrown Hitler out the campaign. Problem solved. cfalcon wrote: Spell Storing, while good, is not something my players ever even *asked* for, even with weapon customization available to them (sometimes for free as part of a weapon level up). Unless you have some great exploit or just trust our ability to come up with something, how much power is front loaded 3rd level spell? I made a *huge* mistake in the previous campaign. Most magic weapon descriptions include the text "range weapon only" or something. Spell Storing did not. So looking it up directly did not lead me to believe it should be melee only. This was in one of those purchasing sessions. The only way I could know it was melee only was by looking at the random table that doesn't list it as an option under ranged. In hindsight, this was dumb. I made them cast one spell per arrow. I required that the arrow hit the living target to set off the spell. I required, for no reason I could make up in game, that one person could only shoot one such arrow per round regardless of their number of attacks available. The arrows were destroyed either way. It didn't matter. This was the most broken hell I have ever experienced. The arcane archer never missed. "The door opens, the battle is joined... and in the first 10 seconds the enemy is engulfed in two huge fireballs with no end in sight. Oh good, their wizard is silenced and burning. This is fun." So yes, I assume you will spend insane amounts of money to get the rogue effectively immune to fireball (perhaps give him everything you can to boost his reflex save), quick draw, and 4 daggers loaded with fireball. Spell storing is gone. It makes that fucking chain look like brightly colored Duplo blocks. Or maybe on the chain you'd put some spell with a 5ft radius. Well, it's not happening. It's just not.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: in which godwin is invoked Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:44 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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Zem wrote: So yes, I assume you will spend insane amounts of money to get the rogue effectively immune to fireball (perhaps give him everything you can to boost his reflex save), quick draw, and 4 daggers loaded with fireball. Jesus fuck, that's a good idea. Can anyone cast Charm on the DM to convince him to let Spell Storing back in the game?
_________________
Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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The Yeti
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:41 am |
--Level 40 Elderly-- |
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm Posts: 771 Location: Zemasia
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"The dancing chain of fireball!"
Oh glorious ring! I hear it! Can't you all hear it?
_________________ Wouldn’t you say a bow is the same thing as a curtsy?
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The Yeti
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:48 pm |
--Level 40 Elderly-- |
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm Posts: 771 Location: Zemasia
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So what is a "living chain"?
_________________ Wouldn’t you say a bow is the same thing as a curtsy?
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:56 pm |
Site Admin |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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A reference to the culture of work gangs of incarcerated criminals in the deep South in the early part of the 20th century.
"You've got good form with that shovel, oldtimer. How long have you been here?" "I been living chain since 1912."
Well, that's the least stupid answer I can come up with anyway.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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The Yeti
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:17 pm |
--Level 40 Elderly-- |
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm Posts: 771 Location: Zemasia
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I walked right into this one. I'll admit that, but I was being serious. I couldn't find anything about it.
_________________ Wouldn’t you say a bow is the same thing as a curtsy?
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: in which godwin is invoked Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:32 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Zem wrote: cfalcon wrote: Knowing you would as this at some point, I already thought about it. A weapon magically designed to optimize killing good or neutral races is going to be considered evil. Oh, that's fine then. You should probably just get rid of it though, instead of reserving it just for NPCs that one shot our fighter. Quote: Elfbane, dwarfbane, etc are evil. Drowbane is not evil (it's not good either). I'm debating an exception that regardless of what sort of race one might be, using a bane of one's own race is inherently evil. I'm not sure on that one. I dunno. Someone will find Drizzt using a drowbane weapon in some book though. It does mean we'll want to hook the monk up with human bane in a way that he's not aware of. cfalcon wrote: I made a *huge* mistake in the previous campaign. Most magic weapon descriptions include the text "range weapon only" or something. Spell Storing did not. So looking it up directly did not lead me to believe it should be melee only. This was in one of those purchasing sessions. The only way I could know it was melee only was by looking at the random table that doesn't list it as an option under ranged. Just for the record, I was in tears already, cause I know how this would go. Quote: It didn't matter. This was the most broken hell I have ever experienced. The arcane archer never missed. "The door opens, the battle is joined... and in the first 10 seconds the enemy is engulfed in two huge fireballs with no end in sight. Oh good, their wizard is silenced and burning. This is fun." Lol, that's great. Quote: So yes, I assume you will spend insane amounts of money to get the rogue effectively immune to fireball (perhaps give him everything you can to boost his reflex save), quick draw, and 4 daggers loaded with fireball. Spell storing is gone. It makes that fucking chain look like brightly colored Duplo blocks. Or maybe on the chain you'd put some spell with a 5ft radius. Well, it's not happening. It's just not. Ok, so, couple things- 1- Spell Storing can't hold area spells. That means, the silence gets a save, and the fireball is not an option. 2- Quick Draw makes this totally fucking broken beyond belief. I had to read the description to see that nowhere does it specify Swift Action or any shit like that, that would make sense. I think Spell Storing as written but make the activation an Immediate or Swift action, would be fair. This blocks off the fireball or whatever because it's area (Spell Storing was never for that), and it also deals with tons of +1 weapons of spell storing and Quick Draw to use them all at once. It does allow for a bunch of front loaded damage where someone has a new spell each round, but that's not nearly as stupid as this. Quick Draw. Nice. I am impressed. Putting it on ranged weapons is pretty epic. That's a misread at the level of when Alan missed the spot where you could only spend up to your level in powerpoints each round (a power that costs 9 power points is about the equivalent of a 5th level spell, and you can cast it at 9th level: a power that you metapsionic up to 20 power points is about a 9.5 level spell, and if you are casting it at level 11, broken shit goes down). He then used that split mind power and everything else to end an encounter (and drain all his PSPs) in essentially one round. It was a tough encounter. He effectively cast a 15.5th level spell. I was counting on him to know the rules for the new at the time psonic guy, and that part wasn't spelled out in big bright red letters (it's a lot harder to miss in 3.5).
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: Nifty weapon options for the spiked chain Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:02 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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The Pathfinder RPG version of the spiked chain is just like the PHB version, but lacks reach at all. This makes it underbudget, though they may have shifted the cost for some of the specials around (aka, check whichever polearm has trip, I think it's the Guisarme).
It does get rid of it being the only triple-area weapon in the game, of course.
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