Zem and I did a lot of work on the armor and shields. The game ships with a bunch of strange rules regarding armor: some skills involve an armor check penalty, donning armor can take awhile, you run slower in some armor, etc. Unlike weapons, the rules aren't that obvious or logical, but they are intended to make sense.


So we've added more, and for the same reason.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=295

The biggest change is that armor doesn't need to slow you down. Pathfinder handles this by giving some classes (notably all fighters) the ability to eventually just ignore the speed debuff, but what I did (and Zem imported) is a more systemic solution. In grand 1ed tradition, we have a big 'ol table.

We have a "STR1", "STR2" and "STR-RUN" column. If you meet STR1 for your armor, you can move at -5 instead of -10, and if you meet STR2 you can move with no penalty. If you meet STR-RUN, you can run at x4 instead of x3. Probably- and we don't have this rule- probably mithril should shrink the values by two, or something (mithril makes the armor one category lighter, but by our rules doesn't help you move any faster).


The intention is that you use these tables when picking out new armor, and then record the results on the character sheet, just as normal. You might find that, wearing full plate, you can move at 25, but if your strength is boosted by a spell, you can move at 30, whereas halfplate doesn't hurt your speed at all, and you might select one or the other based on that.





Meanwhile, shields were turned from very minor things with rules scattered everywhere to rough historical equivalents. Our paladin went with Kite Shield, which is the most defensive of the non-tower shields. Here's the kite shield rules:

Kite Shield
Cost: 26 gp
AC bonus: +3
ACP: -2
ASF: 20%
Hand: Grip shield or AC bonus reduced to +2 and no shield bash.
Casting when hand not gripping shield: No
Shield Bash: 1d3 / 20x2 / One Hand / Bludgeoning
Wield Weapon: No
Disarmable: No
Drop Shield: Move Action
Special: +1 to saves versus spells, spell like abilities, and supernatural abilities that require line of sight or effect an area.
Special: +4 versus trip and disarm

This large wooden shield is teardrop shaped, and often has heraldry or identifying marks painted on the front. It often has metal or leather at the edges. It provides exemplary protection to the lower body. It is large enough that it can sometimes offer defenses against certain magical effects. It’s large size makes it excellent for maneuvering into position in melee, but it is lackluster as a weapon. This shield is strapped to the forearm and cannot be disarmed. The hand is properly used to grip the shield- if instead it is used to hold a small object, the AC bonus of the shield is reduced from +3 to +2. A weapon cannot be wielded with the shield hand, nor can it be used for casting.

This is a MUCH better way to present the kite shield. The PHB has, for instance, "large wooden shield".
First you go to the shield table, which shows you the price, the AC Bonus, armor check penalty, and ASF.
Second, you have to read the description to find that the Weapons Table has the damage for shield bash. It does tell you that you can hold an item, but not a weapon, in that hand while using it.
Third, you go to the weapons table, and find out that it's a martial bludgeoning weapon and counts as a light weapon, dealing 1d3 x2.
Fourth, you find the rules saying that shields don't assign a max dex bonus (except for tower shields, and that fact is under their description).
Fifth, you have to google to figure out whether you can use the shield hand to cast. Get ready to read a lot of opinionated nerds, and ask your DM!
Sixth, look up the disarm action in the SRD and find whether or not it works on shields.
Seventh, look up the "ready or loose a shield" action to see what kind of action it is to do those things. It's a move action, so you'll find it sorted under move actions, which kind of is like knowing that a word is spelled _ak and is a kind of furry animal, so you just have to check every letter until you get to Y.



So we get all that in one place (actually I think we don't mention that readying a shield is a move action, or a free action as part of a move if you have a base attack of +1 or higher, the standard rule).

More importantly, we also get to put specials! Such as:
Special: +1 to saves versus spells, spell like abilities, and supernatural abilities that require line of sight or effect an area.
Special: +4 versus trip and disarm

The first one means that if you have a kite shield, you get a +1 versus the seven sleep saves you have to make each round until level 3, and also helps versus fireballs and such. The second means that if someone is dumb enough to try to disarm you, it is more pointless than normal.




Anyway, since a lot of this stuff was my work, I'd like to know how you guys feel it works out. The armor part I had in my game, and I thought it was really great there- I could make NPCs who used armors besides chain fucking shirt, and the ACs were much more reasonable throughout the whole game. The PCs didn't use them much, as the team was two casters and two light armor guys, but I bet that heavy armor characters will be treated much more reasonably. It's derp as fuck that the normal game makes plate armor a VERY niche choice- I get restricting it to just two classes by default, but it is ludicrous that those guys pay so dearly for such a minor bonus. Meanwhile shields have been very punishing, but this game should have a decent number of shields available for different styles of fighting. This should be much more reasonable, but let me know, and Zem as well- after all, it's his game!

For what it's worth, this +1 from my kite shield was the difference in me snoozing versus staying awake. Then again, "staying awake" also meant "being able to cause no physical damage whatsoever".

Maybe I should just change my name to Meat Shield now.

Well, that guy next to you spent the following round swinging and hitting you for five. If you were asleep, he would have coup-de-graced you for 10, and you would have had to make a DC 20 fort save or die.

First level combat attempts to (and probably sort of does) model real world combat- many blows are meaningless, those that get through are telling, and armor is HARD to get through- that is what armor is for, after all.

The more abstract hit point system really comes into play among the heroic tier, which begins a couple levels in.

Yeah, basically, consider the math.

Your to hit is +1. In 5 levels, it will be +6/+1. It stands to reason you will have some magic on hand to increase that somewhat.

Your AC is determined by your armor, your shield, and your dex. In 5 levels, they will not change all that much.

So, in reality, Hilton had pretty much the same AC as the other guys in there. He only attacked once or twice, and rolling below 5 doesn't help.


Because the fighting was low-hit, the battle went on longer than you might expect, which allowed for the sorcerers to do their thing. I mean, if everyone is rolling about 10.5, then A) That won't hit your enemy, and B) That won't pass a save. That means that eventually, the sorcerers will win.

I mean, in fairness, we'll never hit the auto-hit stuff found in high level games. We won't become mightier than Hercules, we'll top out around Aragorn/Jaime Lanister/Conan. The ability to stab a man in plate armor with a shield who is actively resisting is not the sort of thing that can be done eight times in six seconds in reality- that level of power is simply super heroic.

I've cautioned Zem about a possibly runaway magic DC scenario, so he's monitoring that. Will probably be ok though, there's plenty of feats.

I can appreciate what you and Zem are saying - I am lightheartedly complaining that, in my first foray into my job as tank, I did nothing but absorb damage. And that's OK....there's just something satisfying about cutting down an evil heathen as a shining beacon for Agnelo.

Well next level you get better saves too, which is important because until we train parrots to wake us up, we will all be having a slumber party at your feet!

Why do I have this terrible feeling you're all going to buy dogs now?

I learned a valuable lesson too. I learned that even though the high level character really did nothing, thus making it 3 1st level and 3 2nd level versus 4 1st level and 1 non-relevant factor, you still won. I will need to keep this in mind for future encounters.

That's a bad question to ask.

The better question is, do I name my dog Justice or Virtue?

Well, no, we all misplayed sleep.

I shouldn't have been able to wake up Sir Hilton and Senor Slick in the same round, but Sir Hilton should never have been a valid target. He could have actually swung and hit with his turn (that he never had), or woken up an ally, and the next sleep would have hit fewer of us.

I think it's not fair to draw many conclusions there.


We'll of course be buying dogs soon. I have ranks in "train animal" and some passive that makes me like a Hero To Beasts or whatever. When we get slept, they'll wake us up and also deliver us some Earl Gray, because it's barbaric to wake without some tea.

Sir Barksalot? Squire Liftleg?

Dogs can't squire, let alone become a knight.

With that kind of lack of knowledge, you'd make a very bad knight. And I'm not just saying that because you have tits.

Hey, while we screwed up, the net result was that Sir Hilton contributed very little (failed coup de grace), and yet the party still came out ahead. If we played it correctly, then he could only have contributed more... but that wasn't necessary.

Conclusion: Add one to party number and then double the level of the enemies... fair fight.

Keep it up, and I'm going to request our old DM back.

I have an E6 campaign planned in the immediate aftermath campaign, where you are a bunch of low level guys stalking Narso for the entirety of the campaign. I feel it will really explore the part of Narso's life between when he loses his allies and where he gradually builds up enough power to slay his enemies in the present, go back to the past, and get killed by your old PCs on Sylrena.

It will be great- every battle will be versus Narso or one of his allies that ultimately don't die until his demise in the book, so we know the outcome, and you can start in a large group of warriors that get gradually picked off, so you have to take on more and more Narso hunting duties as you level, until it is finally just the four of you and he kills you and escapes.

Sound good?

Tale Of Narso's Middle Years, we'll call it.

Also we need more of those metal eyes, those were very popular with the PCs.

I appreciate that. It's like when people say "Zem, you suck balls" I can respond "Alright, would you like to try? Or maybe we can go not kill Narso for 3 years?"

You don't NEED to kill him, he's already dead, in the future-past.

I don't see why this makes everyone so confused!


Unrelated:

Who is/was/will be this "Nardo" character. A "The End" wrap-up recap might help us all out...