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cfalcon
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Post subject: On our near wipe Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:38 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Looking back, the funniest part was Rumen calling out our leaf usage as hacks.
Ok, so, time for a straight analysis!
1)- We lack diverse attacks.
We don't lack diverse tactics, and our tactical calls in fight were good. But we definitely lack a diversity of damage dealing methods. We have three full attack warriors in our group, and of them, only the paladin was able to be highly effective in this encounter. It may seem silly to talk about damage types so much, but I feel that it COULD come up at any point, and they will probably matter again.
Rene: Rene's setup can't change a great deal- he's our highest dpr if we can wield him properly, and we have a hard time doing that. I think that what he did was at every point correct- capable of blind-fighting and able to blow shit up with a full attack, and with a solid AC able to tank the hounds, he went to town. He was simply reasonably cursed with die rolls, and ended up with CC on him nearly every round. See below for debuff management to try to fix this. But what if the hounds weren't there, or instead of shadow mastiffs it was a bunch of elite skeletons that mostly ignored his swords? In that case, we would have wanted to push him against the Lich, and would have had a hard time doing so. Possible attack diversity increases: Rene with a quarterstaff is ok, but what about if he had a magic quarterstaff, or two magic warhammers (I think he has Weapon Balance, which should let him dual wield them)?
Vindifinda: My setup was pretty poor for this encounter, and I didn't play it correctly either. To medium and low AC targets at range, I can deliver solid dpr, and we're usually able to enable several full attack rounds. These were generally ineffective against our lich enemy, and the evasion tank dogs also laughed off most of my shots. Being unable to contribute at range versus a caster absolutely requires a change on my end. Possible attack diversity increases: Livid needs to add ranged bludgeoning or more capable melee strikes to her attack capability. A heavy flail would work for melee. For ranged, my options are a lot poorer- light hammers (which I have, but aren't magic) or sling (which are sharply limited on rate of fire). I wouldn't want to invest too sharply in non-magical light hammers (Protection from Normal Missiles, aka Protection from Arrows, is a 2nd level hard counter to mundane ranged weaponry), so that option is very expensive. It's possible we can tolerate a focused archer, but so far my performance is either stellar or shit, with little in between.
Sir Morningstar: Alastair is a consistent performer, only ever held back by unusually shitty die streaks. Incapable of putting up dpr numbers like our other two warriors, he's also incapable of being turned off by trivial jackassery- he's very solidly resistant to crowd control effects, thanks to his paladin bonuses- the fear save with the low DC was something he never even needed to worry about rolling, and the myraid of other effects are a lot less likely to hurt him than the rest of the team. Possible attack diversity increases: Beyond having a morningstar (B/P in case his S is down) or warhammer, I can't think of anything too useful. Quick Draw would allow him to hurl some weapons at his full attack rate while still holding his shield, but that gets shut down fast enough by the same stuff that would shut Livid down in that case.
2)- We lack a solid stash of niche stuff
Any debuff we encounter mostly requires the cleric to have chosen his spells well, and then spend a round dealing with that. Any enemies with a specific vulnerability or counter we are generally unlikely to have on hand. Expecting low level casters to have this bag of tricks is simply not correct thinking- as a party, we can do this to a decent degree. As E6 characters, we have access to vastly more wealth than a typical level 6 party, after all.
But here's the problem: I went to make a list, I ran into some cash issues. Notably, these potions are expensive for what we have at the moment. On the one hand, I feel a lot less bad for not having a stash of 750 gp remove blindness potions, but 300 gp remove paralysis potions and 50 gp protection from evil potions are less excusable.
I propose we fund the cheap list, and consider the expensive list going forward.
Potions Potions and oils are any spell that has a target of a creature or object. Spells that target "You" can't be made into potions. A potion can be effectively drunk in combat by anyone (and an oil applied by anyone). A potion costs double what it would cost in a scroll (Caster level x spell level x 50). Oils are smeared on objects, potions are drunk.
1st Level Spell potion: 1x1x50 = 50 gp 2nd Level Spell potion: 2x3x50 = 300 gp 3rd Level Spell potion: 3x5x50 = 750 gp
Suggested Cheap list: 2x Mage Armor (2x 50gp = 100 gp) 4x Protection from Evil (4x 50gp = 200 gp) 4x Remove Fear (4x 50gp = 200 gp)
Suggested Spency List: 2x Cure Blindness (2x 750gp = 1500 gp) 4x Remove Paralysis (4x 300gp = 1200 gp) 2x Remove Curse (2x 750gp = 1500 gp)
Scrolls Scrolls can only be effectively be used by someone with the scroll on their spell list, or ranks in Use Magic Device. Scrolls are much less limited than potions, because you can choose things when casting it, instead of having to make that choice when making the scroll. Scrolls cost half of what potions cost.
1st Level Spell scroll: 1x1x25 = 25 gp 2nd Level Spell scroll: 2x3x25 = 150 gp 3rd Level Spell scroll: 3x5x25 = 325 gp
Arcane Scrolls Suggested Cheap List: 4x Scroll of Shield (4x25 = 100 gp 2x Scroll of Detect Secret Doors (2x25 = 50 gp) 5x Scroll of Magic Weapon (5x25 =125 gp) 2x Scroll of See Invisibility (2x150 gp = 300 gp) 2x Haste (3x 325 gp = 700 gp)
Suggested Spency List: 4x Scroll of Identify (4x 125gp = 500 gp) 3x Scroll of Detect Thoughts (3x 150gp = 450 gp) 4x Scroll of Mirror Image (4x 150gp = 600 gp) 4x Heroism (4x 325 = 1300 gp) 2x Displacement (2x 325 = 750 gp)
Divine Scrolls
Suggested Cheap List: 2x Entropic Shield (2x 25 = 50 gp) 4x Remove Fear (4x 25 = 100 gp) 2x Remove Paralysis (2x 150 =300 gp) 2x Lesser Restoration (2x 150 = 300 gp)
Suggested Spency List: 4x Find Traps (4x 150 = 600 gp) 4x Silence (4x 150 = 600 gp) 2x Remove Curse (2x 325 = 700 gp) 2x Remove Curse (2x 325 = 700 gp)
Either Arcane Or Divine Scrolls
Suggested Cheap List: 4x Protection From Evil (4x 25 = 100 gp) 2x Cats Grace (2x 125 = 250 gp) 2x Bulls Strength (2x 125 = 250 gp) 1x Eagle's Splendor (1x 125 = 125 gp) 1x Owl's Wisdom (1x 125 = 125 gp) 2x Bear's Endurance (2x 125 = 250 gp) 2x Comprehend Languages (2x 25 = 50 gp) 4x Summon Monster I (4x 25 = 100 gp)
Suggested Spency List: 4x Dispel Magic (4x 325 = 1300 gp) 2x Gentle Repose (2x 325 = 750 gp) 6x Fly (6x 325 = 1950 gp) 8x Resist Energy (8x 150 = 1200 gp) 1x Summon Monster II (1x 150 = 150 gp) 1x Summon Monster III (1x 325 = 325 gp) 1x Daylight (1x 325 = 325 gp) 1x Invisibility Purge (1x 325 = 325 gp) 1x Wind Wall (1x 325 = 325 gp) 2x Remove Blindness (2x 325 = 750 gp) 2x Prayer (2x 325 = 750 gp) 3x Align Weapon (3x 150 = 450 gp) 2x Searing Light (6th level) (2x 450 = 900 gp) 1x Speak With Dead (1x 325 = 325 gp)
Wands
Wands are expensive, but per use are the cheapest thing around. I suggest we hunt down a Cure Light Wounds Wand. While scrolls have a multiplier of 25 and potions 50, wands are at 750- but they have 50 charges.
Cure Light Wounds: This 750 gp wand will give us 50 charges of 1d8+1. This will serve us well between battles.
Wands are only practical if you think you'll need the spell at least a couple dozen times. Below that, scrolls will be much cheaper. A wand of haste, for instance, would be 11,250 gp- an epic expenditure, given that a haste scroll is 375 gp. Basically, a 3rd level wand is either an expensive group buy or a powerful item for a caster (that will run out), a 2nd level wand is a really uncommon group buy or a decent source of a common but not ubiquitous buff for a caster, and a 1st level wand is mostly a commodity. Cure Light Wounds would get us up to snuff between battles.
3)- We could use slightly better pre-fight tactics
Mostly we were in deep trouble when we didn't stop to buff. We should really have a list of hour and 6 minute buffs that we throw up right before a fight we think is a big deal. This is just something we should make a habit of doing- even having a few 1st level spells out of the way (especially stuff like 1st level scrolls) will make a big difference, and we won't miss 200 gp of items if we are wrong about the upcoming encounter. I think this should just be a thing we get in the habit of asking about, but we could just make a list of likely buffs and run through a yes/no before we kick a door in where we smell trouble.
4)- Debuff Management
We went into the fight with our potions distributed acceptably, but we didn't really have a plan in place for how to handle stuff. In few cases were we able to handle the debuffs the next turn, forcing Rene to try to free himself of hold person several consecutive rounds. I think some of this was just us getting behind in actions, but if we had a solid set of debuff curing potions on the non-casters, and debuff curing scrolls on the casters, we would be able to get ourselves dispelled of bullshit a lot faster.
5)- Save bonuses
While we didn't really consider buffs like we should have, we definitely didn't buff our saves as effectively as needed until a bit later. Some (like my fear save) were far gone. Others were just harrowing when they shouldn't have been. I remember staring at a 7 and a 9 at some point (I don't remember why I needed to roll twice, but I was fucked if either failed) for a save that shouldn't have been too threatening, and it just felt like we could have had a focus on more pluses going forward. Do we just need to invest in cloaks of resistance?
Totals:
Cheap List total: 4525 gold pieces. This is everything on the cheap lists above (potions, arcane scrolls, divine scrolls, universal scrolls), and the wand of cure light wounds.
Full list total: 20225 + 4525 = 24,750 gold pieces. This is the cheap list plus all the expensive lists.
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:20 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Hey, what kind of shield does Alastair use?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:23 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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cfalcon wrote: Hey, what kind of shield does Alastair use? That dragon shield that the mature green dragon gave us for saving the baby dragon. It's a kite shield, with (I believe) a +3 bonus. Don't quote me on that last part. I agree that our pre-fight tactics could be a little better. Problem is, we rarely encounter a door with a big "Here is the boss" sign painted on it. Still, I agree that we could anticipate a little better and have some of those longer duration buffs active. Also, when entering a dungeon/castle/whatever, the first thing the sorcerer should always do is say "I cast mage armor". Wasting a round of combat to cast this spell is extremely hindering to our party.
_________________
Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:29 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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I wouldn't use the word "extremely", but as a six hour spell its very annoyingly positioned- he doesn't want to cast it thrice, after all. A wand isn't a good solution because the charges are only a single hour. Also its not the only buff spell in its category like this- I have a three hour longstrider spell that I should always have up in dungeons, but instead never have up in dungeons.
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:02 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Ok, I have a suggestion:
Pay to have the kite shield enchanted OFFENSIVELY. This won't offer any of the defensive benefits (in the stock rules on this, which we appear to be using, offensive pluses and defensive pluses are completely separate on shields).
It's easy to forget that you are always holding two weapons- your sword and your shield. Mostly because without the feats, it's not very effective. But in some cases, like an enemy who thinks swords are tickl-y, it's probably worth considering.
Probably this is better than the "+1 Morningstar" solution, because then you have to worry about dropping your sword and getting out the morningstar, etc. This way, you have a bludgeoning option always ready to go.
Right now you can forgo your sword attacks to make two shield attacks. The shield is a lot weaker, as it deals 1d3 +Str/2 instead of 1d8 + Str, and isn't magic. You also lose your shield bonus to AC until the start of the next round (you can take Improved Shield Bash to ignore this, but I don't think its worth worrying about).
Right now you could ALSO decide to add a shield bash to your attack cycle, but this gives your sword attacks -6 to hit and your single shield attack -10 to hit. That's obviously a stupid call without Improved Two Weapon Fighting (up to -4/-4) and Weapon Balance (up to -2/-2)... and you can't take TWF anyway.
This is 2000 gp worth of enchantment, and doesn't make you buy feats or anything like that. Instead you get a nice attack versus something with DR 15/bludgeoning, at the cost of 2000 gp.
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:11 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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In the coming soon / supplemental loot thread, we looted some +4 AC bracers. So he slips into those and mage armor is now a spell for animal companions and familiars and pokemon horses who aren't wearing barding.
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:47 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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cfalcon wrote: Right now you can forgo your sword attacks to make two shield attacks. The shield is a lot weaker, as it deals 1d3 +Str/2 instead of 1d8 + Str, and isn't magic. You also lose your shield bonus to AC until the start of the next round (you can take Improved Shield Bash to ignore this, but I don't think its worth worrying about).
This is 2000 gp worth of enchantment, and doesn't make you buy feats or anything like that. Instead you get a nice attack versus something with DR 15/bludgeoning, at the cost of 2000 gp. I kinda like this idea. I might even consider Improved Shield Bash. I mean, we're gathering feats at every 5,000xp, so it might be a good use of a feat. Might. I do have that unenchanted silver mace that I tote around, which has been helpful once or twice in the past, but this solution pretty much allows me to ditch the mace. cfalcon wrote: In the coming soon / supplemental loot thread, we looted some +4 AC bracers. So he slips into those and mage armor is now a spell for animal companions and familiars and pokemon horses who aren't wearing barding. Yarp. It's now a moo point, as the cow would say. Which cow? I'm not certain yet.
_________________
Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:59 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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 Presumably this one! Well, for feats, you have some different options: Improved Shield Bash is great if you actually plan to be shield bashing. The reason I think it's meh for you is, in order to help, ALL these would have to be true: 1)- You fight an opponent who is mostly immune to the sword (this will absolutely happen, but not every fight) 2)- Your shield bash reduces your AC by 4 or 5 or whatever. 3)- You are actually struck by an attack that would otherwise have missed due to the shield. 4)- The hit matters. This can happen, but it seems rare. Consider: Quick draw lets you instantly draw your mace (which in this scenario gets the 2000 gp enchant). It also lets you draw your sword instantly in situations where that matters, and lets you instantly have your knife out in situations where that matters, and lets you throw two light hammers in a round in a situation where that matters. You can't get your shield on or off any faster, but any weapon shenanigans work fine. This ups your damage with the attack from 1d3+3 (or so) to 1d8+5 (or something) as well, in these situations. Of course, you leave your sword lying around, so you're all in for that combat. Dodge seems offtopic, but given that the benefit of shield bash is a +4 or eventually maybe +7 to AC in situations where you are punching with your shield, it's worth pointing out that dodge gives you a +1 AC to almost everything else, and everything else happens a lot more than that one thing. Is +5 AC very rarely worth +1 AC all the time? If you already have dodge then disregard this point- you are obviously very interested in shield bonuses lol. I just assume that the 2000 gp will be spent on bludgeoning anyway, and the difference between swinging with (assuming Str 18) a 1d8+5 mace versus a 1d3+3 shield is probably uncommon enough that it's worth spending the feat elsewhere.
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:27 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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OK, interesting points. The Quick Draw feat might be a better selection over Improved Shield Bash.
Without the feat, it appears that drawing a weapon is a move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, and sheathing is also move action that DOES provoke. So if I wanted my sword still to be handy, I'd have to spend a full round switching weapons, while potentially provoking an attack of opportunity. I could still move while doing this.
If I were to take Quick Draw, that would allow me to sheathe/draw as a combined single move action, still potentially provoking, and also still allow me to attack if I'm in range.
I do not currently have Dodge, I don't think. That might be the first new feat to be selected, with Quick Draw coming next time.
_________________
Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:34 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Paladin feats: I think shield bash is even worse for you after looking through our feat list. Zem didn't duplicate my front page guide (In Complete Feats thread in Balor's Pantry), but so use that as your overview / table of contents, and actually check his All Allowed Feats thread to see whether the feat is present. Battle Blessing, for instance, didn't make it into his game (and won't make it into mine without a serious nerf, if I allow it). Summary list. If you haven't ever read this, you may find my occasional commentary amusing too: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=312The allowed feats thread (must be logged in for obvious reasons): viewtopic.php?f=19&t=353I think these feats are all way better than Improved Shield Bash for you. I think Improved Shield Bash would be good if you were built around hitting people with your shield, a damage per round machine like Rene. Awesome Smite - This gives you three tactical options for using your smite. One of them smashes the fuck outta DR. You already have Power Attack I think. Quick Draw - For reasons stated above. Swift Call - Horseymon, I choose you! Seriously powerful in dungeons when your horse is hanging with the gods. By the way, ask that horse what it is like in heaven, because it has a real Int and Zem is squirrelly about the other planes. Umbral Shroud - This is probably a paladin thing Interesting but probably not better than improved shield bash: Brutal Throw - If you go quick draw at some point, this can make your strength bonus be your +hit instead of your dex bonus when throwing hammers like a goddamned hammer brother. Extra Slot - This would be interesting if you weren't using a kite shield. As it is, you'd need Somatic Weaponry.
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:42 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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PoorAssRacing wrote: OK, interesting points. The Quick Draw feat might be a better selection over Improved Shield Bash. I will point out that I'm wildly in love with Quick Draw. Any martial character can switch weapons with it, and it enables throwing weaponry too, should that ever matter. If I had taken point blank shot instead of this at first level, then most of the encounters where I was taking -4 to melee would not have had that. On the other hand, switching to a polearm to get an attack of opportunity is also amazing. Quote: Without the feat, it appears that drawing a weapon is a move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, and sheathing is also move action that DOES provoke. If you have a BAB of +1 or higher, drawing the weapon is a free action as PART of a move as well. So if you have to move 20 feet, you can already take your weapon out during that movement, and then attack with your standard action. So if you were going to sheathe your sword, you could: (move action) Sheath sword (standard action) move to your new location while taking your mace out So you can position, but not attack. If you had dropped your sword, you could move to your new place while taking your sword out (move action) and then attack (standard action). That's entirely without quick draw. I think it's unlikely you'll want to sheathe your weapon in combat anyway. Quote: If I were to take Quick Draw, that would allow me to sheathe/draw as a combined single move action, still potentially provoking, and also still allow me to attack if I'm in range. With quick draw, you could sheathe your sword as a move action (provoking if in range), draw new weapon as free action, then five foot step somewhere and attack with your standard, or attack with your standard then five foot step. Or better yet, drop your goddamned weapon, draw your new weapon, five foot step, and full attack. Quote: I do not currently have Dodge, I don't think. That might be the first new feat to be selected, with Quick Draw coming next time. Dodge is solid, but I also listed some others to consider. Also, do we not have extra smiting anywhere? Those books have like Black Lore of Moil, but no one thought paladins might wanna smite more? Or did I just miss it?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:55 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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I'll have to go through those lists again when I have more time. I've been through them both, but it's been awhile.
Sheathing a weapon is just an option that might be nice when in a battle with, say, a bunch of enemies that resist pointy attacks, but also some who are summoning them. Not to say that it will happen often, but having the option would be nice.
Good call on extra smiting. I want to say I've seen that feat somewhere, but maybe in wasn't in this campaign.
I really like Awesome Smite.
I'll also have to start talking to my horse some more.
_________________
Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:24 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Oh good grief. It's in complete warrior. I think that's the one I didn't get to, because it starts with W.
Extra Smiting requires BAB 4 and the ability to smite. It increases smite attempts by 2. You can take it multiple times. Check with Zem for allowed status. I forgot that I wasn't quite finished before they took down dndtools.eu. To the PDFs!
It's complete warrior page 98.
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:35 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Oh, that's where improved rapid shot is too. I was wondering where the fuck that was hiding.
I'll add those to my thread, later, with some tag that Zem can review? CW is the first of the completes, and it has a shit lot of feats.
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:06 pm |
Site Admin |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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By the way,
OMG ONE OF YOU IS FLYING SO IN THE RIGHT ORDER THAT PERSON CAN JUST HOVER OVER TO THE NEXT MOSTLY DEAD PERSON AND FEED THEM A LEAF INSTEAD OF SPENDING A MOVE ACTION STANDING THAT IS FUCKING HILARIOUS
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:29 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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Yeah, we had a little luck on our side for that.
_________________
Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:34 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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The fly thing was pretty hilarious, but it did strike me as realistic. It was funny and not immediately obvious, but in hindsight, it makes sense to rez the guy who can move better first, because he can move better.
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:53 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Though its spelled out in the feat list, I want to remind everyone that Extra Spell can get one 3rd level spell, one 2nd and one 1st, or three 1st level spells. And Extra Slot is similar. Both are of value to a Sorc, but the Extra Slot has merit for a cleric, and maybe even a ranger or paladin. Maybe.
At this point in E6 progression I think that it will only be full casters interested, and only in the 3rd level variant, but the others could definitely have some merit later.
Also interesting: I don't know if it will matter, but Practiced Spellcaster can boost the caster level of multiclass characters (3 Wiz / 3 Fgt) or Hybrids (6 Pal or 6 Rgr). It boosts caster level by up to 4, capped at hit dice, so if Alastair took this his cure light wounds would go from 1d8+3 to 1d8+5 (CL3 to CL6), and if I took it my longstrider would go from three hours to six hours. I don't know if this is in any way worth a feat- it only affects the caster level variable, which helps with duration and magnitude on a few spells, and helps with spell penetration, which isn't something that anyone but a full caster (who can't use this feat) would care about. Still, if it comes up.
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Sweethouse
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:45 pm |
Superior Master |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:00 pm Posts: 318 Location: In your dreams
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Thanks Jon for going through and figuring out some spell and scroll ideas, I think that will help us greatly. I also think it is time to get some bashy weapons since it doesn't seem things are going to get any less boney any time soon. I will look up some options and look at what I have. Hammer feathers sound lovely.
_________________
PoorAssRacing wrote: I'm going to have a ringmail made entirely from Rings of Protection, so that my AC is Texas.
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:28 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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If you're seriously interested, remind me of your feats. I think you have Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Balance, and Improved Two Weapon Fighting. Is that correct?
Your bets are as follows:
1- Double Light Mace. The light mace is a light handed simple weapon, and it does 1d6 with x2 critical. This is a lot worse than the warhammer, BUT, because it's a light weapon, your weapon finesse works normally (dex to hit instead of strength), AND your insightful strike works normally (additional int to damage). This is your best bet, I think. Total book price for a pair is 2*(4+300+2000) = 4608 gold.
2- Double Warhammer. The warhammer is a one-handed martial weapon, and it does 1d8 with x3 critical. This puts it roughly in the same category as the longsword, and the only reason you'll be able to dual wield is because of your weapon balance. Your total book price for two of these 2*(12+300+2000) = 4624 gold. Note that in this case you have strength to hit (not dex, because its not a finesse weapon), and you don't get insightful strike (you get strength to damage only, not strength + intelligence, again because it isn't a finesse weapon).
I think you'd do best with the double light mace, but it DOES mean you have to be able to carry around the extra 8 pounds of encumbrance. That's not the end of the world or anything, but still. With such a focused build I don't know if you really need to go this distance, because we may not actually be swarmed with bones, and my other suggestions don't involve buying a whole weapon set- the paladin can pay to enchant his already magic shield, so 2000 gold and he's good to go, and I have some options that are about as obnoxious as yours, but I have quick draw so I wouldn't be worried about the opportunity cost of swapping weapons. Additionally, if we pretend we had all these things in this encounter, we would have still had one fly spell, and would have had to put it on you (way higher damage per round) or the paladin (way higher chance to not be crowd controlled). Still, it would be nice to have the option.
You were maximally effective the whole fight. You are optimized for melee and spent every round in melee (or rolling saves to get back in melee, or healing yourself from standing in melee), with blind fight, rolling against evasion dogs. The fact that you spent the whole fight running around and shit is just dice- I think you played every round correctly, unlike me.
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:33 am |
Site Admin |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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Sea Flacon, I suggest you take the gold that I forgot to mention until afterwards, and then purchase scrolls and potions for the group. Otherwise, we'll have to do it when we start as everyone flips through books looking for clever things.
Here are the major relevant shops of Port Hemstin. I'm including it because I already came up with them and I feel it should be mentioned. Magic Shop: Marvelous Oddities Armorer: Porslen’s Armory Weaponsmith: Sticks and Stones
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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PoorAssRacing
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:36 am |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:45 am Posts: 1065 Location: Taking the fair maiden's....hand
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I'm not sure what a Sea Flacon is, but I'm guessing they're in good with Lava Conchs. The bastards.
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Zem wrote: "Take 40 points of damage." "Why?" "Because my mother breastfed me until I was 9 and it's having some serious psychological effects on me."
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Zem
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:41 am |
Site Admin |
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm Posts: 1807
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PoorAssRacing wrote: I'm not sure what a Sea Flacon is, but I'm guessing they're in good with Lava Conchs. The bastards. Hm. Maybe I should have Sea Falcons. I think that might be a marvelous enemy. I'm guessing it would be mostly talon attacks but maybe 1d4 rounds they can do a super strong charge with sort of a head butt.
_________________ Do the asparagus look threatening?
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cfalcon
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Post subject: Re: On our near wipe Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:34 pm |
Master of the West Wind |
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 am Posts: 1547 Location: BRB giving magic item to lich 1sec
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Quote: Sea Flacon That's a name I've not heard in a long timeWell, no one has chimed in with "yes, lets use the loot to buy the cheap list". It seems like a good idea though. If we buy the cheap list, the amount to the pot is 175 gold (minus whatever overage we get when buying the gear). I then suggest we distribute it as follows. Note: Alestair must have at least half a rank of spellcraft to use the scrolls I listed there. When you get a scroll, you have to make a DC 20 + spell level check to use it. This is trivial for any full caster, and even a sorcerer who doesn't train it still has Read Magic to fall back on. Brenaed can assist for +2, so even if his Int is +0 he's still good for second level spells. Livid has half a rank of spellcraft and an Int bonus of +1, so she should be good. If Alestair is untrained, then any scrolls that could go to him should be on Brother Eisen's list instead. #HybridProblems VindifindaPotion of Protection from Evil Potion of Remove Fear 2x Scroll of Cats Grace 1x Scroll of Bear's Endurance BrenaedPotion of Protection from Evil Potion of Remove Fear 4x Scroll of Shield 2x Scroll of Detect Secret Doors 5x Scroll of Magic Weapon 2x Scroll of See Invisibility 2x Scroll of Haste 2x Scroll of Protection from Evil 1x Scroll of Eagle's Splendor 2x Scroll of Comprehend Language 4x Scroll of Summon Monster I [Celestial Monkey, I choose you!]RenePotion of Mage Armor Potion of Protection from Evil Potion of Remove Fear Sir MorningstarPotion of Mage Armor Potion of Protection from Evil 1x Scroll of Remove Paralysis 1x Scroll of Lesser Restoration 1x Scroll of Protection from Evil 1x Scroll of Bulls Strength Brother EisenPotion of Remove Fear 2x Scroll of Entropic Shield 4x Scroll of Remove Fear 1x Scroll of Remove Paralysis 1x Scroll of Lesser Restoration 1x Scroll of Protection from Evil 1x Scroll of Owl's Wisdom 1x Scroll of Bear's Endurance 1x Scroll of Bulls Strength 1x Wand of Cure Light Wounds (note that Alestair and Livid can also use this wand- it has 50 charges and heals 1d8+1 per use)The expensive stuff isn't on this list, and it should very much be pointed out that we all need to refresh our cure potions. If anyone is interested in buying those, the list prices are: Cure Light Wounds (1d8+1) = 50 gp (9 gold per hp, 5.5 hp)Cure Light Wounds (1d8+2) = 100 gp (15 gold per hp, 6.5 hp)Cure Light Wounds (1d8+3) = 150 gp (20 gold per hp, 7.5 hp)Cure Light Wounds (1d8+4) = 200 gp (23 gold per hp, 8.5 hp)Cure Moderate Wounds (2d8+3) = 300 gp (25 gold per hp, 12 hp)Cure Moderate Wounds (2d8+6) = 600 gp (40 gold per hp, 15 hp)Cure Serious Wounds (3d8+5) = 750 gp (40.5 gold per hp, 18.5 hp)Cure Serious Wounds (3d8+6) = 900 gp (46 gold per hp, 19.5 hp)(I left out some of the goldwise dumb combinations here, and bolded the defaults which are the best buys anyway- the 6th caster level of cure serious wounds is of interest in an E6 game, because it's the best curing you can buy per action in combat under default rules)
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