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 Post subject: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:04 pm 
Disciple
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We have a caster in our group who is using Chill Touch and I don't think he's getting as much out of the spell as he should. I want to help him out and clear it up for myself so please agree/disagree, comment, criticize, and feedback :)

Two parts to my question:

#1.How many touch attacks can you make per round?
#2. How do you play the spell "Chill Touch"?

For #1:
(I won't go into the rules for holding touch spells in #1)
How many touch attacks can you make per round?
Given: Your one free touch attack after casting a touch spell.

PHB p.141
Quote:
Touch Attacks: Since you need only touch your enemy, you make a touch attack instead of a regular attack.

I assume that if you hold a spell or if it has multiple charges/rounds of use you may continue to make touch attacks like attacks you would normally for a full round attack. For instance you hold a single charge (or miss on the round you cast) and your BAB is +6/+1, so you can make two touch attacks to attempt and deliver the spell as a full round action one at +6, then another at +1 if the first touch attack misses.

For #2:
How do you play the spell "Chill Touch"?

PHB p.209
Quote:
Chill Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.

An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level.

I interpret this as to mean you get a number of touches (charges) equal to your level and can make up to a maximum number of touch attacks per round equal to your full attack. For example a 2nd level caster could cast Chill Touch and make one successful touch attack the same round, then make another touch attack the following round because there is still one charge/target left.

This is course unless you make a successful normal attack, cast another spell, or another case in which the spell would dissipate/be used up while holding any remaining charges/uses.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:11 pm 
Disciple
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Update:
PHB p.176
Quote:
Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Interpreted Chill Touch to be unlike teleport and water walk even though it allows you to touch multiple targets as part of spell because it relies on your BAB and normal attack rules for those multiple targets.


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 Post subject: Re: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Holy hell. I have no idea. I looked through the PHB errata and didn't see anything.

I think it first must be different from teleport as you said simply because I don't see how you'd make an attack per level in a round. So in that regard, I think you're right that you can run around swatting people for up to caster level.

For the round it is cast, he only gets the single touch attack (standard action). After that, I guess he can use full attacks until it runs out of charges or he casts another spell.

At least, that's how I'd rule it until someone explained otherwise.



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 Post subject: Re: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:21 am 
Master of the West Wind
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On the first round, you can make a touch attack as part of the casting. So, standard to cast, move into position, and then get the touch attack as part of that action

(here's the text)

Quote:
Touch Spells in Combat
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.


On subsequent rounds, you can make one touch attack for every attack you would be entitled to based upon your base attack. So if you are a 12th level wizard, with a base attack of +6, you would get one attack at +6 + Str versus touch AC, and then another at +1 + Str versus touch AC.

(I actually allow Dex to touch attacks, but that is a house rule)


Do remember that you get extra attacks based on your base attack still, not your caster level, so this is more a trick for casters that also have martial levels- otherwise they don't get the extra attacks until 12th level, at which point they usually have something more important to do that melee twice a round with chill touch.


Quote:
Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.


Do remember to quote the actual relevant action that allows this:

Quote:
Holding the Charge
If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.


This is under Standard Actions, and it is what allows you to actually touch multiple friends who want to be touched (note the willing). If you are using attack actions to get the spell to land, you don't get any benefits with this. Unless all your friends want to be hit with chill touch- maybe it heals them!

Your ruling is correct.


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 Post subject: Re: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:06 am 
Disciple
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Thanks for the feedback. Yes I think DEX for touch attacks makes more sense as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:29 am 
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The questions was posed on behalf of my character, I'm a duskblade.

My understanding of the discussion is: One of my hands will have to hold the charges. If that hand touches the shaft of my glaive it would dissipate.

I can use the two charges my level provides just not in the same round. I have to make a unarmed attack (attack of opportunity allowed) must likely with dex abil mod, not str.


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 Post subject: Re: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:46 am 
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Yes, holding the glaive in both hands dissipates the charge. Using the glaive requires two hands, but you can carry it around the battlefield with just one.

An unarmed TOUCH attack does not provoke an attack of opportunity.



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 Post subject: Re: 3.5e Touch attacks & the spell "Chill Touch"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:04 pm 
Disciple
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Murrauder wrote:
I have to make a unarmed attack (attack of opportunity allowed) must likely with dex abil mod, not str.


No. It is not an unarmed attack, it is a touch attack. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity. As for DEX it's up to the DM as I believe the official rule is for strength but for touch attacks dex makes sense as well for trying to hit.


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